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Post by MarcUbi on Jan 27, 2012 17:10:18 GMT -5
Hello everyone,
Just a quick introduction as this is my first post in this forum. My name is Marc and I’m the game director of Assassin’s Creed Recollection (Yes, I am working with Thierry and Gab who are regulars on this forum).
I am really proud to see how much time and effort you’ve all put in the game. There is no better reward for a game designer! I hope that we can keep up with your expectations in the next updates!
As some of you have already pointed out, we feel that some Memories are a bit unbalanced right now. Our goal is to have as many viable strategies as possible so here are some changes that we are looking into:
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Judgment Day 0, - When you launch this Memory, lose all your Gold. Target Site or launching Site gets +1I for each 2G lost.
Calling All Stand-Ins 0, - When you launch this Memory, lose all your Gold. Put a X/X virtual Militant with FIERCE in your HQ, if there is an empty slot. X is half the Gold lost.
Royal Intervention 0, - When you launch this Memory, lose all your Gold. Score 1 in target Region for each 2G lost.
Daring Experiment 0, - When you launch this Memory, lose all your Gold. Draw a Memory for each 3G lost.
Animus Reboot 12, - Erase all Agents and Sites. Your Score on each Region becomes 0.
Devout Citizens 3, +1, 1/1 Pay 3: Opponent discards his Memory with the highest Cost (at random in case of a tie). Launch this ability only during daytime.
Pantheon 5, -, 1 Your Score in this Region becomes 0. If a player controls this Region, he wins the game.
Ezio Auditore, Assassin 10, -, 5/5 Neutralize target Agent or Site.
Rodrigo Borgia, Pope 10, -, 5/5 You regain Gold twice as fast.
Lorenzo de' Medici 10, -, 5/5 Lorenzo de' Medici gets +5/+5 if you have 20R or more.
Cesare Borgia 10, -, 5/5 Cesare Borgia resolves as a Surprise.
Leonardo da Vinci 10, -, 5/5 Draw 2 Memories.
Lanz 5, -, 1/1 THREAT. When Lanz campaigns, your Thieves get +1/+1.
Faux Pas 1, - Neutralize target launching Memory with cost 0 or 1.
Court Order 4, - Neutralize target launching Memory.
Preemptive Strike 6, - Neutralize target launching Memory. Draw a Memory.
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I would really like to hear your thoughts on this. And if you think that we’ve missed a few other Memories, don’t hesitate to point them out. (As a general guideline, we’re mainly looking for overpowered/under cost Memories).
Can’t wait to read your comments!
Marc
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Post by Tuism on Jan 27, 2012 17:42:50 GMT -5
On particular cards: So all the X gold cost mechanisms have been nerfed by essentially half - I don't mind that, I do like that it'll open up the game a bit. Interested though, why is Judgement Day and Calling All Stand Ins worded differently - one says half gold lost, one says for every 2G - they mean the same thing, right? The Reboot is now not quite as attractive to play... I guess that's ok, although I never thought it was imbalanced - the wipe comes quite expensively. On the subject of the reboot - can we make the art less white - it's VERY hard to tell how far the memory's launched. I like the citizen change. Makes great sense. Great that it's just the citizen, too. Love it. Discard has been getting so much flak just cos of that one card (most of the time) Removing Fierce and all abilities from all bosses... OK... Lanz costs 5 now!? I suppose that makes it a risk card to play. And in fact... Alone, he'll only be better than Bartholomeo after 3 attacks. It's a huge nerf - Maybe 4 cost is just right? Not sure... What is the point of Faux Pas without a +1 income? Nerfing order ALL the way I think is not entirely necessary - I've never thought of Faux Pas as something needed taking down. It's an irritation but not a threat. Too weak late game, just like any other income booster. Removing resource from all counters is quite a big nerf. I guess order needed it... I still believe that in every faction there should be its staple utility cards that boost income, so maybe leave it on court order and remove from other ones? -------------------------------- Overall... Overall these changes slow the game down tremendously, I guess that opens up the way for the lesser cards to be more useful rather than everyone relying on big Fierce guys and co. But it's gone a little far, for example, at 5 cost, why would I not play bartolommeo the gold 4/2 with threat for 5? I guess cos of synergy with other thieves... Ok, so more pure thief decks and less splash Lanz decks... With the exception of Faux Pas and maybe Animus Reboot and to a certain degree Lanz I welcome these changes. My only worry is that games will go on longer, and there's already a lot of waiting that's happening in some mid to long games... And that might deter and frustrate players. Perhaps it's time to implement the multiplayer speed up button that only speeds up when both players are pressing it. I'm guessing you've seen the other thread with discussion on balancing some cards - I don't agree with all, in fact most of it, but it's a valuable read: acreedrecollection.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=suggestions&action=display&thread=256-------------------------------- It's the greatest reward as players to see the dev so involved in co-creating the game, I'm so glad you guys aren't tied up in bureaucratic BS about communication as devs often are! Rock on!
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Post by Brontobeuf on Jan 27, 2012 20:36:25 GMT -5
Hey Marc!
Everything looks fine but the follwoing two: - Lanz / cost 5 sounds too much for me. He's way too strong at 3, but he's still a 1/1 who gives no ressource boost when he arrives in play. And paying 5 for this, is only acceptable mid game. It would be, maybe more balanced if he costed 5 but also gives a +1 ressources (unless it's not possible for flavor/lore reasons of course). Another option, a bit more concept-changing, is to let him stay at cost 2 or 3 and to give his bonus to other thieves only and no longer to himself.
- Lorenzo / with FIERCE I don't want to play him. I'm not sure he'll gain my favors without it anymore. I'd lower the proc requirement maybe by 3/4/5. So we can rely a bit more on him to be 10/10, with or without FIERCE.
Great changes for all the other cards, specially counterspells and X cost cards.
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Post by Ringel on Jan 27, 2012 20:53:23 GMT -5
Thanks for checking in her and letting us know what's up! I really like the idea of changing Devout Citizens! Ezio Auditore, Assassin 10, -, 5/5 Neutralize target Agent or Site. Rodrigo Borgia, Pope 10, -, 5/5 You regain Gold twice as fast. Lorenzo de' Medici 10, -, 5/5 Lorenzo de' Medici gets +5/+5 if you have 20R or more. Cesare Borgia 10, -, 5/5 Cesare Borgia resolves as a Surprise. Leonardo da Vinci 10, -, 5/5 Draw 2 Memories. With the exception of Cesare, are any of these others too powerful as is?
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Post by Raphael Majere on Jan 27, 2012 22:26:09 GMT -5
Wow, firstly, I am really happy to see Marc here! Welcome! I hope you are not too lost here! The depth of the analysis on game play, deck building, strategy is really extensive here, thanks to the great support given by everyone. Secondly, I like the proposed card errata a lot. The counters gets nerfed. The 5/5 agents are nerfed. It will create more balance. I think Daring experiment is fine as it is. Right now, Blue Order is dominant; most of the cards getting the nerf comes from blue. I play a Ancestral Discoveries + Preemptive Strikes deck (Keeps getting +1 + extra card draw) and it's very strong (Probably considered OP by my opponents!) and even I would agree with your proposed changes. I need to get back to work; but I will most certainly look through the list again and provide any further insights if I have any. Love the game and I really appreciate you and all the Ubi staff coming forward to engage us! Thanks!
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Post by Pete on Jan 27, 2012 23:37:57 GMT -5
Can you think about giving gold back to a player who tries to steal a played card like truism pointed out?
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Post by Tuism on Jan 28, 2012 2:19:21 GMT -5
Can you think about giving gold back to a player who tries to steal a played card like truism pointed out? You mean giving back gold to the player whose played card was stolen/discarded?
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Post by Tuism on Jan 28, 2012 2:27:13 GMT -5
Hey Marc! Everything looks fine but the follwoing two: - Lanz / cost 5 sounds too much for me. He's way too strong at 3, but he's still a 1/1 who gives no ressource boost when he arrives in play. And paying 5 for this, is only acceptable mid game. It would be, maybe more balanced if he costed 5 but also gives a +1 ressources (unless it's not possible for flavor/lore reasons of course). Another option, a bit more concept-changing, is to let him stay at cost 2 or 3 and to give his bonus to other thieves only and no longer to himself. - Lorenzo / with FIERCE I don't want to play him. I'm not sure he'll gain my favors without it anymore. I'd lower the proc requirement maybe by 3/4/5. So we can rely a bit more on him to be 10/10, with or without FIERCE. Great changes for all the other cards, specially counterspells and X cost cards. Making Lanz pump all thieves will just encourage everyone to play more thieves and therefore Lanz. I would hate to see the field awash in thieves more than it is right now. But yeah Lanz needs nerfing. I propose 4 cost... Think about it, for 5 you can get 4/2 threat in gold. Any colour could access that. I think instead of universally removing abilities from all bosses, the flacour ones still really should stay, so: Lorenzo FIERCE is a perfect fit with media. Ezio assassin shouldn't have fierce but should have threat. Da Vinci should have cunning but not fierce, Cesare should be official, and Rodrigo should have recover. Having them just plain 5/5s is a bit meh.
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Post by Tuism on Jan 28, 2012 3:00:41 GMT -5
Also, just in terms of wording, I think the "get" vs "have" and the "at resolve" vs "active all the time" abilities can be confusing for newer players - we can understand the subtleties now, but that's after a lot of trial and error. Is it possible to mark "When this card resolves" or some kind of symbol (like the current pay to play abilities) that indicates that it's a once-off on resolve ability vs an always-on ability? It might push some card's text count over the top... Dunno, you guys think about it Again, thanks
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Post by Pete on Jan 28, 2012 4:39:23 GMT -5
Can you think about giving gold back to a player who tries to steal a played card like truism pointed out? You mean giving back gold to the player whose played card was stolen/discarded? yes
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Post by The Rancord on Jan 28, 2012 6:10:10 GMT -5
The X-Cost Cards: I dont feel like this, I dont see why you would nerf them all. Royal Intervention just lacks enough counters. Animus Reboot: The card isnt that, and nerfing it in 2 parts is overdo. Devout Citizens: This will make this card unplayable. The only reason u use this is for the discard-lock. Pantheon: The card is perfectly fine You pay 10 they can get countered and sudden exhausted and erased and what ever. Do think That if I pay the big boss I want to feel he is a big boss. Ezio: He is fine as he is Rodrigo: Fine as he is Lorenzo: Fine as he is Leonardo: Fine as he is Cesare: The strongest of the 5, I think leaveing firece is ok. Lanz: I think "Unique" would be enough, he is ok, as long as not multiple copies appear. With 5 he is way to slow. Faux-Pas: The card is a risk to include. When it fires you should benefit with the +1 Court Order/Pre-Emptive: Don't see a reason to nerf them. Then you should remove the income boost from all discard cards as well. I think they cards sholdnt be touched after release unless there is a severe problem. But SOlving the Discard Lock: You can only launch a discard card if your enemy has actually a card on hand.
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Post by xatria on Jan 28, 2012 11:10:16 GMT -5
I agree with people that Faux Pas is fine as it is. None runs 5 of them and they aren't that common. Maybe on paper they are overcosted but not so much that it's overpowered & dominant. Re discard lock, it's fine that it exists but it should cost a card per day instead of 3 gold per day using Devout citizen. So the change is good. For 10-cost agents, Cesare is too strong and dominant while Lorenzo and Rodrigo are rarely played I think. Maybe just lose the Fierce is enough (plus lose Official for Cesare). Lanz, yea.. 5 cost seems overnerfed. Plenty of suggestions for this already. X-cost cards, yes they do feel undercosted especially RI, but the nefs seem to severe? I guess we can try to see how it is with the nerfs. Can readjust later if turned out too weak. I don't agree w/ Rancord that they should not change the cards too much. This is, after all, a digital online game not physical card game. As long as the balancing changes are communicated and allow for diversity of strategies and tactics, it is necessary for the long term longevity. As the meta now, I'm not compelled to play that much anymore. Thieves, Cesare, Counters and RI are too dominant and get boring after awhile. I don't care about credits that much (yay.. we get $1 vs 0.60c a day now) so not much motivation to play for me. Every time I want to try a new interesting deck idea, it gets trounced by those
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Post by The Rancord on Jan 28, 2012 12:27:02 GMT -5
On the other hand this is quit true. As long as I keep playing blue I win. *The 2nd color doesnt even matter that much*, but staying away from blue is mostly staying away from wins. The thieves are fine though, Cesare/Coutners are most. *I dont see much royal interventions though*
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Post by setzer777 on Jan 28, 2012 14:44:21 GMT -5
I agree. Requiring blue to compete severely limits the amount of possible deck variety.
One big problem is that one of the few real answers to counter-heavy decks is Cesare (also blue). I think that every color should have at least one card (that can feasibly take regions) that cannot be countered.
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Zed
Full Member
ACR NoobTuber
Posts: 255
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Post by Zed on Jan 28, 2012 15:06:26 GMT -5
Overall I like the changes, ESP the x cards.
If I were to suggest anything it would be that the animus reboot should do exactly that, reboot everything all agents that aren't safe and all sites, with all regions going back to 0. Basically a new game started with less cards in sequence.
I wouldn't change the cost of lanz, I would simply take away his thief status, that will mean he can't affect himself but it's the same cost and all other thieves benefit. However he would need something else to stop him being trounced, like always safe or something?
Citizens is a nice nerf, but would make it unusable for discard lock as rancord mentioned, I like his idea of only being alento use it if opp already has a card in hand, or any card that enters your hand at the start of the day is safe from all actions against it for 2 seconds
I wonder if by increasing the cost of these cards you are going to make the games last longer which then has a negative effect on resources or card availability mid to late game?
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