control deck tips/advice?

[pryingtuna85649]

I think I have a pretty solid understanding of how to build a halfway decent agent rush deck, but playing with this same kind of deck is getting a bit repetitive and boring. I've been trying to build a control deck of some kind, but they never work when I try them out in a game. After a search, there doesn't seem to be any kind of in depth discussion/explanation on the elements of a control deck.

I've seen people post specific control decks they've built, but I don't have a lot of the cards to try myself and other than the strategy with those specific cards, I don't understand the overall structure or skeleton of a deck like this. Can someone guide me in the right direction so I can put some variety in my decks?

[Brontobeuf]

You need to be able to face with every problem your opp will play until you can kill him with your "bomb".
So, that means:

- You need more ressources cards than in a rush.
- You need to find a bomb. It's how you will win the game. It has to be something hard to counter and very efficient. Cesare Borgia, Carnevale, Royal Intervention, Buried Cathedral etc. No more than 10 cards in your deck are about it.
- Everything else is about gaining the Card Advantage while dealing with your opp's cards. You can use counters, discard, mass destruction cards etc.
- Don't play more than 50 cards if you can. It will grant you more stability.

Share your draft with us, so we can see where you are now. :]

[pryingtuna85649]

Ooooh, thanks Bronto! That makes sense...sounds kind of like you trick your opponent in a way. Or just really piss them off with countering all their beginning cards (now how I've lost in other matches makes sense, too). Bet these decks result in a lot of rage quits, hehe. Now that you've described this, I've certainly rage quit to this kind of deck. I just didn't know it was a control deck at the time. I'll certainly post as soon as I have one created!

[pryingtuna85649]

OK, here are some drafts:

"card nazi" (haha, I've been trying to create a deck that works with this title)

Income:
Plentiful Crop x5
Nothing Ventured x5 (though I'd like something better ultimately)
Cathedral di San Pietro x5
Forced Inheritance x5

Actions:
Court Order x5
Untimely End x5
Faux Pas x2
Ritual Sacrifice x2
Answered Prayers x1
Sacred Vision x5
(FYI I want to put in more Ritual Sacrifice and Answered Prayers, but those are all I have right now unfortunately)

Bombs:
Buried Cathedral x5
Papal Influence x5


"card nazi" attempt number 2

Income:
Plentiful Crop x5
Forced Inheritance x5
Knowledge Has a Price x5

Actions:
Scientific Method x4
Royal Decree x2
Evasive Maneuvers x5
By Order of the King x4
Untimely End x5
Court Order x5

Bombs:
Dante x5
Il Carnefice x5

[Brontobeuf]

The first one will have too much ressources, not enough draw power and the bomb is too much vulnerable to counters. You may just end without any kill. It's also vulnerable to sites.
On a side note, a player with no cards in his sequence (deck) won't lose the game if he can't draw (he would in Magic for instance). He just can't draw a new card anymore. You need to add "x" to get the win.

The second one looks better. More solutions & correct ressources boost. But 5 Il Carnefice is maybe a little too much. ^^


Next step is to play it and makes changes. After 5 games, what are the cards you don't like drawing and what are the ones you always want to draw; then make the necessary changes. Even after I publich a deck list here, I continue tweaking my decks each time I lose too much with them. :]

[Rob (Roebidoebi)]

Apr 19, 2012 0:18:22 GMT -5 Brontobeuf said:

Next step is to play it and makes changes. After 5 games, what are the cards you don't like drawing and what are the ones you always want to draw; then make the necessary changes. Even after I publich a deck list here, I continue tweaking my decks each time I lose too much with them. :]

5 is important! Don't change a deck after a single game, there are way too many factors that could have caused a single bad result. You must have played at least 5-10 games before you can say anything about the deck.

[Ringel]

I usually test a deck a couple times in "The Arena"-- the first city state challenge level. Fast forwarding is helpful to get through a lot of games quickly. The AI isn't very bright but you will face a variety of deck styles there. I use this to find really big problems with my deck before testing person to person.

[Deleted]

don't use nothing ventured,nothing gained/knowledge has a price unless you have really hardcore control over your opponent.
Very important stuff which makes most control decks to win most games - draw power. Use green to gain most card advantage, or use cards like tactical upheaval/condotierro tactics.

Draw power means that you have more cards and better chances to actually control your opponents every move.

The other thing that makes a good control deck, is your sence of understanding what your opponent plays and can play next. This helps you to build instant in-game control tactics.

[pryingtuna85649]

Thanks for the explanations everyone! I'm gonna keep referring back to this post, because it's a lot of good info that is all stuff I need to work on. I just gave up on building a control deck...couldn't for the life of me figure out why it wasn't working, because it looked like I was following everyone's tips.

But arriatt, what you said just made the lightbulb go off on why they aren't or haven't been working for me. I don't havemuch understanding of what my opponent will play next...I mean, I basically understand what COULD happen, but I don't pick up on the opponent's strategy very well yet. Unless it's obvious, like pulling out 6 courtesans in one turn and just letting them sit there while I'm scoring. This might also explain why I'm horrible with the green cards. As of right now, I DESPISE green cards...hate playing against them and can't be successful with them. But I think it's an understanding thing. And I think that will just come with more experience. Well, hypothetically speaking, lol.

Thanks again everyone!

[Deleted]

Basically what runs through my head - i see colour - means certain strategies
order - counter/safe dante/ official rush
media - millitant rush/ art gallery/
faith - discard lock/ deck mill/ high cost whipe the screen
crime - thief rush/ courtesan
green - draw power

Further in-game opponents show more of his strategy, and you can successfully guess what kind of card he will play. Most cards work in combos, and call these combos, when appear on the field. You can read this and try to prevent with your control.

[pryingtuna85649]

@arriatt, thanks for that break down! That's pretty awesome and puts it in perspective. Part of where I'm currently having a hard time is with opponent surprise cards and knowing how to handle those situations. Like say they have 1-2 sites in place that score 1 point in each region. I draw an agent I really need (or, for example, a green "draw more cards" card, etc), but I know he has a surprise neutralize card he'd use if I brought it out. The rest of my cards are surprises, and he knows that so he's also not bringing out any cards. I've waited in times like that, but it has resulted in him winning because he has those two sites in place. I dunno...that prolly just means I need to revamp my deck, but it seems like every game I play with a control deck either ends like this or against a rush deck that obliterates me. I guess I'm really just still getting the feel for it too, though...? I dunno.

[mana]

you will often find yourself in such a situation. counter vs counter. then every little cardadvantage counts. the one with more counters in his hand will win sooner or later in most cases. that is why Preemtive Strike and Esp Spi are so strong. they replace themselves and counter at the same time. so dont be hard on yourself or your deck in such situations when your enemy got 5 of those cards and you dont.

[gamemaestro]

If they have the advantage on the board, you've got to press the issue eventually.

Also, for colors, site rushes are often green or red.

[pryingtuna85649]

I will eventually get those cards. Just trying to fill the cheaper holes in first, lol. I think part of what's hard is understanding how you have card advantage with only 5 cards that score points. But I think I can understand that more with a card like preemptive strike. The discard deck I'm playing with right now is doing pretty well, though.

[thest4lker]

Card advantage just means you have more cards than your opponent. Bronto had probably the best illustration of it, so I'll quote him more or less from memory. Let's say you have a 1/1 militant, and another agent resolving. I play mario auditore, killing your resolving agent. I then block and kill your 1/1 militant. You then use sudden exhaustion on Mario. I now have card advantage, as I have taken 3 cards out of your deck, for one of mine (which in this example is still able to block). So pre-emptive and SCI ESP kill an opponents Card, but don't cost you a card (pre-emp gives u another card, SCI ESP gives you a copy of the card you neutralized), hence you gain card advantage. Unless a rush deck wins quickly, most often the winner is the one with card advantage