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Post by MarcUbi on Apr 25, 2012 11:38:16 GMT -5
Apparently, ranking and competitive play is a major topic here so let me develop a bit more.
Current situation: Game center is an great way to pair players together and to allow playing with your friend. It was easy to implement, and that why we chose it at first… On the other hand, we have absolutely no control on the pairing method or the ranking (we can’t reset it, we can’t ban a player, we can’t even reduce a player’s score – as needed for an ELO ranking). Almost any popular game’s ranking has been hacked in game center, so we also knew it was coming…
The conclusion is simple: we need to migrate out of Game center to offer you a satisfying competitive and long term experience. As we already stated, this is one of our priority right now. But keep in mind that we are a relatively small team and that this is not a simple task. That’s why I can’t give you a tentative date but it will certainly take a few months.
Goal: I certainly want a fair ranking system that rewards quality over quantity. A strict ELO system is not my immediate choice though: - it’s hard to understand - it encourages parsimonious play - it’s not really suited for a game where luck is involved Therefore, I’m still pondering different options.
The tournament structure will probably come later but I certainly want to link a reward system to the ranking to encourage the best players and the best newbies.
The competitive play is really important to me as the game was design to support it. So I want to make sure that we have the correct tools and environment to provide you a challenging and rewarding experience.
Comments are obviously welcome!
Marc
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Post by Pete on Apr 25, 2012 12:52:38 GMT -5
Interesting, what other options are on the table?
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Post by joolsita on Apr 25, 2012 15:57:07 GMT -5
Probably not be most brilliant thing to say... But why the Gamecenter has a "report" button? Why Apple created a Leaderboard/pairings system which, most of times, needs major fixes? Is there are ANY way we can provide them our suggestions, not mentioning asking for mandatory fixes? Just asking, maybe someone here and even Marc (thanks for your patience, always!) can tell us what's best to do in this weird (but still perfectly fixable, giving both Gamecenter and iOS overall net gaming a better experience and very polished features) situation... I'm a little fan of Gamecenter, like to have some friends, playing mates, but reading previous Marc's post I'm considering GC with a completely different perspective now. And it's not good... :-(
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Post by Tuism on Apr 25, 2012 16:52:12 GMT -5
It's simple - apple made game center to promote social gaming - not competitive gaming. So their servers aren't the most secure in the world. So what? It's gaming, and a dollar or two games that they would prefer to run than "actual" competitive environments. So they don't really care about legitimacy and hacks like this because it has nothing to do with their bottom line.
I really don't see any feedback making a difference in Apple's universe.
I would love to hear what other options there are for a competitive landscape besides ELO though. How is the battle.net ladder, for example, implemented?
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Post by Brontobeuf on Apr 25, 2012 23:53:14 GMT -5
Ideas:
I like the leagues system. You can have a good exemple of it in Starcraft 2. Let me explain how it works in SC2: - When you want to play competitively, you have to play 5 games first. These 5 games will put you in one of the 5 leagues. - When you play after that, you play against players in your league. If you start to be good in your league, you will eventually go in a stronger league. If you are not good enough to stay in your league, you will go down in another league. - You can tell if a player is good if he tells you "I'm in platinium league since 3 months". Platinium is the best.
And that's it. You have similar systems in nearly all collective sports. :]
Another option is a decaying ELO. Each week, you will lose points if you don't play, solving the issue with the pasimonious play as stated by Marc. It's still an issue to lose 50 points against a niewbie who got a day 1 doomsday.
You can implement a simple ladder system. Where you can either play for fun, or challenge one of the 10 (online) players above you. If you beat one, you will take his place and everybody will lose one step. When you are challenged and win, you stay where you are, the loser lose one step. The issue is obvious with this one, as you need a strong structure around the challenge mode.
As a conclusion to my own post, I like the league system :}
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Post by gamemaestro on Apr 26, 2012 14:58:59 GMT -5
I like the league system (I think of it as a soccer system) or even decaying ELO. I know that luck is an element in this game, but I assume that over time the impact of luck diminishes. You can't get lucky/unlucky every game. I don't think that we should reset the leaderboard just to reset it, but rather if we will replace it with something different. It really doesn't mean much other than a person's dedication to the game right now.
Also, Marc, thank you for responding to this community as you have. It's been a very pleasant surprise and should be one of the elements that will allow this game to continue to grow.
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Post by MarcUbi on Apr 26, 2012 17:08:20 GMT -5
Thanks a lot for your feedbacks. It made me consider a few more options. I like the league system too for its simplicity but I will have to check if there is a simple way to implement something similar... I'm not a big fan of the decaying system as it is punitive instead of encouraging. there are also other options as the planeswalker point from Magic (but with a better Balance . Marc
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Post by gamemaestro on Apr 26, 2012 19:05:17 GMT -5
I'm guessing that a league system is truly an ELO system where certain ELO ranks are bucketed together. It probably has a decaying element as well so that people play more often to stay in the top tiers, but at least the various ranks are better hidden by the size of the bucket.
As long as the decay isn't outrageous, people shouldn't be overly discouraged by slipping from one tier to the next. It should probably mean quite a bit to be in the top tier (and I'm guessing that tiers aren't even numbers of players). Just my random thoughts.
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Post by coolkendude on May 1, 2012 9:09:09 GMT -5
Very nice interview - can't wait for the new memories!
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Post by omgoose on May 16, 2012 17:16:12 GMT -5
I actually think a new edition based on Altair and the crusades would be awesome. Between AC1, and the mobile games, the crusades-era based games I would say are almost as fleshed out as the AC2 universe and the renaissance era.
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Post by claireohya on May 18, 2012 23:40:23 GMT -5
Good job Marc and Tuism! Thank u guys for all the hard work~~ (also thank other admins for their contribution to the forum!) I'm so excited about the expansion and tournament ^_^ I'm going to save my Animus credits for new cards~~ yay! Btw, I just introduced my cousin to play ACR and he loves it :]
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Post by matavious on May 22, 2012 23:36:58 GMT -5
Really looking forward to the changes. Ranked matches will be great for consistently fun match ups. Thanks Marc for taking the time to talk with the community directly. It's encouraged me to invest more in the game. And thanks Tuism (and the rest of the regulars here). I would not be enjoying the game nearly as much without this community.
Really looking forward to catching the release of the expansion. I joined just after the market came into being and it's going to be fun figuring out all the new cards.
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Post by TemplarTyler on May 29, 2012 12:42:27 GMT -5
Hi All Not been around for awhile... Finishing my first uni year and all. So I have only just seen this Interview, Something that got my attention was the Developer saying that he can arrange to have Maffei put in. So as, is so often the case with me, My main care is of AC: Lore/ background. 1) Does this mean there is a possibility of a future pack that will look at those great opportunities/Possibilites/Characters to be put into a... I don't know... A 'The Ones that didn't make the first Cut' pack... So you would have Maffei - as already said - As well as Il Lupo and Baltasar de Silva, Erasmus, Rocco, Perotto Calderon,Tessa Varzi, Giovanni Borgia, and the most ignored charcter Faustina (MP The Thief). - Well you get the idea. Also, Something that is still bugging the life out of me, is Francesco Vecellio's portrait... It is not Vecellio, it is Il Lupo (Who is a templar agent not an assassin), and also Templar Knight, should really be Verulo Gallo. I also wonder if the Romanies of AC:Rev will be classed as Courtesans or have their own classification? As AC didn't put Courtesans in AC:Rev because of their Status in the Ottoman Empire. I do like the idea of the new type, Dominant. And I really, REALLY like the possibility of a trip down memory lane to AC1's Characters to make a deck. I also ask if the new deck with give more options to things such as Artists, Mercenaries, and Scientists etc. I apologise for the real lack of actual gameplay ideas feedback, but I am a nut for the AC Lore
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Post by Tuism on May 29, 2012 14:00:55 GMT -5
I think the feedback you give to the lore is very interesting, I indeed would be pleased if they "fixed" some of those continuity "bugs" like using the wrong portrait
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ABXantos
Junior Member
The Master Templar
Posts: 164
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Post by ABXantos on May 29, 2012 14:21:24 GMT -5
So as, is so often the case with me, My main care is of AC: Lore/ background. 1) Does this mean there is a possibility of a future pack that will look at those great opportunities/Possibilites/Characters to be put into a... I don't know... A 'The Ones that didn't make the first Cut' pack... So you would have Maffei - as already said - As well as Il Lupo and Baltasar de Silva, Erasmus, Rocco, Perotto Calderon,Tessa Varzi, Giovanni Borgia, and the most ignored charcter Faustina (MP The Thief). - Well you get the idea. Also, Something that is still bugging the life out of me, is Francesco Vecellio's portrait... It is not Vecellio, it is Il Lupo (Who is a templar agent not an assassin), and also Templar Knight, should really be Verulo Gallo. I also wonder if the Romanies of AC:Rev will be classed as Courtesans or have their own classification? As AC didn't put Courtesans in AC:Rev because of their Status in the Ottoman Empire. Dude I'll admit the Francesco/Il Lupo thing had also been bugging me like no tomorrow as well. I knew a Francesco Vecellio existed in AC but I completely forgot what he looked like until I redid Project Legacy and found out he was an Assassin who trained under Ezio. Does this mean the entire Vecellio card will be redone in name and cosmetically (still keeping its effect but it would be an entirely different looking card) and two new cards (Francesco Vecellio - Assassin; Il Lupo - The Prowler) will appear or will the typo just be fixed? I also agree on The Knight, he should have his proper name on and Faustina needs to really get back into the spot light. She's the only Templar Agent with no substantial back story. And a good point that you brought up with the Romanies in Revelations. I think for the sake of the card game they would be classified as Courtesans like a majority of the Assassins are classified under Thieves. Even then they functioned the same way as the Courtesans did in AC2 and ACB.
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