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Post by Tuism on May 2, 2012 17:11:56 GMT -5
Combining two ideas together, the stranger/malfatto discard lock and the palazzo deck I wanted to build, I've made this little guy. Income, draw & discard 5 divine intervention 4 knowledge is power 4 tactical upheaval 4 answered prayers Site synergy 3 palazzo library 4 Venezia, San polo 5 San gimignano Malfatto combo 5 mysterious stranger 3 malfatto 3 Leonardo da Vinci Defense 4 scientific espionage 5 lassitude 2 ancestral discovery 51 cards It's a little slow to start, do the lassitude help against rush. But if it gets countered... Uh oh. Tactical upheaval helps a bit against big power rushers, notably officials 3/1, 2/1 and the fierce militants, and is surprise speed resource with draw. There is possibility for speed site kill via San gimignano and/or pallazo, and with Venezia San polo it's almost perfect defense against sites big or small. The final synergy with the strangers and malfatto is actually more of a bonus even though it's what started me developing this deck. If you get it down you win, if you have enough resources to deal with what's on the table already. Discard generally helps with getting there too by hopefully negating opposition before zeroing your opponent's hand. I really like the idea and it's fun to play until it gets to "that point" where you just simply know you win or you lose. It seldom drags on too long despite having the discard lock potential. Any suggestions?
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rl
Full Member
Posts: 320
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Post by rl on May 2, 2012 18:16:43 GMT -5
looks cool to me, (until like you said you have them locked and know you will eventually win though it doesnt look like it takes long to win when you're at that point) only cards i don't like are the ones that deal with the shitty carousel haha but they are necessary.
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Post by Brontobeuf on May 2, 2012 18:36:23 GMT -5
Looks nice. I may see some ressources issues.
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Post by Tuism on May 3, 2012 0:41:32 GMT -5
Looks nice. I may see some ressources issues. Yeah agreed, half the time I'm playing strangers as resource more than their discard. I'm having trouble seeing which cards I can drop though, The nature of the deck is such that there's 2 combos... Maybe forget the palazzo idea altogether... Your suggestion? On a related note, I just lost to double papal influence. Lol for that damn bug
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Post by UnCL0NED on May 3, 2012 2:40:41 GMT -5
I am working on a bounce/discard deck myself, atm (because everybody is ) and here are some of my findings in general on this subject (bugs aside). Firstly I've been checking the same combo Malfatto/Mystery Guy, but I noticed it's too slow/expensive to play in general... How often have you really got the combo to work? Because I only ever got a full lockdown in the late-game, when I would've won anyway. I imagine with even 3 Malfatto's chances are even slimmer. To have a full lockdown, you also actually have to have at least 2 Mysterious Strangers and a Malfatto or you have to be a master on timing (which I'm not). So I've been checking then the combo together with Gaspar, because just by replacing MS, I have time and income to also focus on other aspects of the game. And I can get more continues "synergy" with other agents and sites as well. Core idea: Fill up my HQ with Heathens (building up income fast as well) and start replacing. Only it's a really fragile combo again (Gaspar is a bigger threat than Malfatto, apparently (get's neutralised asap, by most opponents), and finding MS and Gaspar depends a lot on luck in this deck. Tutoring them is slow and expensive... Most of the time I got killed before I even had both out together... So finally (where I am now) is that I added Devout Citizens and got rid of both Malfatto and Gaspar and instead focus on bouncing mainly my opponents stuff. Which is much more efficient, because it buys me time to set up my own stuff. It's far from perfect, but a lot of fun to play already (and a lot of synergy ). What's in the deck atm is: - Mysterious Stranger - Devout Citizens - Divine Intervention - Impending Pandemic (For some fun: Have 2 in your hand > Play one to bounce everything back > Let your opponent play everything > then drop the second one, followed by some Strangers and DI's ) - Bitter Sweet - Learned Hermeticist - Plentiful Crop - KHAP (this card becomes fun a bit later in the game as well now, Triggers your Citizens again...) - Leonardo Da Vinci - Crypt Della Visitazione (It's slow, but timed right in the late-game can give big scores, when you have 2 or 3 in play.) - Venezia, San Polo District (Sorry for breaking in your thread, Tu. I see it has become a whole deck discussion by itself If you want me to move this, let me know...)
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Post by Tuism on May 3, 2012 3:16:11 GMT -5
The gaspar combo sounds pretty cool man but yeah it's a super fragile combo, and with tactical upheaval those dudes can get dead at surprise speed. At least gaspar won't be killed that easily. But filling your hq is no easy task I like your take on it, so you should actually do your own thread cos it's certainly a new fresh approach!
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mana
Full Member
Posts: 367
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Post by mana on May 3, 2012 7:49:58 GMT -5
hey i dont see the real reason in including venecia san polo. do you really want to kill sites? you could just outscore them with your deck. borgia tower/art gallery might be a problem ok... (lassitude as a solution) but apart from that i think it would make your deck stronger if you would include sth like romolus instead of san polo.
as it was already said. malfatto+stranger will only work when you won the game anyway. they do not help winning the game at all.
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Post by UnCL0NED on May 3, 2012 9:07:25 GMT -5
Tuism, Yes, I will test my deck a bit more and post it as a proper deck soon...
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Post by jmeredith06 on May 3, 2012 9:43:27 GMT -5
Maybe get rid of palazzo library and 1 latitude and put in 4 plentiful crops? San Gimignano is all the site you need . it looks fun though! Also, I disagree with the mysterious stranger costing too much or you have already won by that point...the combo costs 6...umm that's not that much really. 6 to continuously lock an opponent is fine by me 👍
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Post by UnCL0NED on May 3, 2012 13:49:54 GMT -5
Tuism, I decided not to make a thread of my version, because it is just way to slow, atm... I'm abandoning this idea for now. I also played my MC bounce deck a few times just now, and it is much more consistent and really on a competitive level compaired to this discard bounce idea... Good luck with tweaking yours
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Post by Tuism on May 3, 2012 14:13:13 GMT -5
I've tried to drop the palazzo combo and tweak resources, also tried to make it faster... There really don't seem to be a point to just run for the combo cos even if the combo is out early you will need to get his hand down to zero or deal with table threats first. It's a bit of a bummer situation. The all site attack is still a bit risky cos of the half hearted run with red and green resourcing. I'm not gonna play KHAP for shit, so it just becomes a discard with bonus lock anyway. Got totally destroyed by underground catacombs which stole my San gimignanos, that was funny. Guessing I could have waited for the lock before dropping sites but gods that's boring. But I'll keep playing with the fun but deadly idea
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Post by Tuism on May 3, 2012 17:42:42 GMT -5
I also played my MC bounce deck a few times just now, and it is much more consistent and really on a competitive level compaired to this discard bounce idea... Good luck with tweaking yours MC? I've gone off on a different approach now with this concept... It's no longer hoping for the lock but aggressively pushing the lock... But the lock does/would seal the game while it degenerates into a waiting match. It's significantly better than the regular discard concepts I feel cos those don't have surety, since of course the citizen nerf. This is a lock Have to Say it's not the most interesting finisher in the world but it's pretty good, starting to get consistency out of it
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Post by UnCL0NED on May 4, 2012 1:57:54 GMT -5
That's good to hear. MCs = MerCenary (sorry, a few people on this forum refer to them as mc's ) btw, I wouldn't be to worried about Underground Catacombs too much. Sounds like a situational thing. Underground Catacombs is pretty expensive, which you can easily discard if you have the cards in your hands...
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Post by Tuism on May 4, 2012 2:06:02 GMT -5
That's good to hear. MCs = MerCenary (sorry, a few people on this forum refer to them as mc's ) btw, I wouldn't be to worried about Underground Catacombs too much. Sounds like a situational thing. Underground Catacombs is pretty expensive, which you can easily discard if you have the cards in your hands... I know that's what I thought so too, but somehow I got whacked by 2 of them just gotta be more careful. Steals will kill any unlucky unsuspecting bastard And yes I agree, the bouncing crime deck is MUCH more consistent. My one is just sitting there looking pretty though, got tired of it haha, gotta chase new concepts
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Post by omgoose on May 4, 2012 16:32:03 GMT -5
I'm running something like this with the Discard lock, but the sites are totally different: Converted Chapels, San Pietro, and Santa Maria Novella. You can sight rush while you work on discard and agents, it covers all bases.
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