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Post by coolkendude on Aug 3, 2012 9:28:02 GMT -5
Linking this thread to tisonpomrt's 4th contest thread: acreedrecollection.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=game&action=display&thread=1900&page=3It seems that Janissary Justice can still score even though Maffeo and Georgios are in play and over a region that has 0 score on it. In the link above, there are images at the very bottom of the page that shows the before and after of JJ scoring over a Maffeo/Georgios combo on a region where the opponent score was 0. |
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Post by Tuism on Aug 3, 2012 13:30:08 GMT -5
Janissary Justice has Dominant, I think dominant overrides defender.
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Post by ironcladtrash on Aug 3, 2012 15:45:58 GMT -5
Janissary Justice has Dominant, I think dominant overrides defender. Under normal circumstance I could see that but it still has defender as well as dominate and shouldn't be able to score. But it's not just that card it's also other direct damage cards. Also this combo has other bugs like thieves that can still gain 1/1 with Lanz even though he didn't score. |
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Post by Ringel on Aug 3, 2012 15:49:16 GMT -5
Under normal circumstances, something with Dominate/Defender will do this:
Dominate will reduce the opponent's score (if it is positive). It will also score with Defender (which will also reduce the opponent's score if it is positive.)
So this does seem like a bug.
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Post by kackman73 on Aug 3, 2012 16:04:06 GMT -5
Under normal circumstances, something with Dominate/Defender will do this: Dominate will reduce the opponent's score (if it is positive). It will also score with Defender (which will also reduce the opponent's score if it is positive.) So this does seem like a bug. I wonder how something with Dominate/Defender is supposed to resolve when Georgios is in play. Take an example: You have Manuel Palaiologos in play (5/5 Dominant). Opponent has Maffeo/Georgios in play. The opponent has somehow managed to get a region back up to 8 points since your Manuel arrived (and you have 0 in the region). You attack with Manuel, and he scores. What happens? Defender resolves first: his score goes to 3, then Dominant resolves. His score goes to 0 and yours goes to 3. Or: Dominant resolves first: his score goes to 3 and yours goes to 5, then Defender resolves and his score goes to 0. Or: They resolve simultaneously and... what happens? As far as I can tell, the main difference will be in how much you score, as opposed to how much he loses. (Take a smaller example in which his score is only 4 to start: defender first means you get 0, while dominant first means you get 4). |
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Post by ironcladtrash on Aug 3, 2012 16:07:00 GMT -5
I think the bug is this. Maffeo and Georgios only prevent campaigning agents from scoring and sites from scoring daily provided you have 0 score in that region. The combo doesn't seem to effect action cards or other effects that are triggered from scoring like Lanz. Also tokens agents don't get defender, but I could see that either way.
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Post by coolkendude on Aug 3, 2012 16:14:50 GMT -5
I think the bug is this. Maffeo and Georgios only prevent campaigning agents from scoring and sites from scoring daily provided you have 0 score in that region. The combo doesn't seem to effect action cards or other effects that are triggered from scoring like Lanz. Also tokens agents don't get defender, but I could see that either way. I actually thought about the same thing, ironclad. I think the devs programmed it similar to Sofia's ability so actions can get around it. I don't know if that was intended or not but the way it's worded right now makes it look like a bug. |
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Post by kackman73 on Aug 3, 2012 16:28:18 GMT -5
I think the bug is this. Maffeo and Georgios only prevent campaigning agents from scoring and sites from scoring daily provided you have 0 score in that region. The combo doesn't seem to effect action cards or other effects that are triggered from scoring like Lanz. Also tokens agents don't get defender, but I could see that either way. I actually thought about the same thing, ironclad. I think the devs programmed it similar to Sofia's ability so actions can get around it. I don't know if that was intended or not but the way it's worded right now makes it look like a bug. I thought the Sofia Sartor thing was WAI though. She only prevents sites from scoring "each day" (meaning to me: when they would normally score at the start of each day). She doesn't prevent sites from scoring at all, so things like Borgia Cardinal or the memory that gives your sites defender and makes them score as the memory resolves would seem to be okay. The card in question here says that "memories with defender cannot score more than the opponent's score in the region", I believe - and that should cover everything from agents to sites to actions to surprise actions to, well, everything. Either way, Maffeo/Georgios is pretty wonky as a whole, and probably was difficult to test merely for having to figure out all possible scenarios. Has anybody tried to see what happens with Deceptive sites or agents and Maffeo/Georgios? If I have a deceptive site with 3 influence in a region where your score is 3 or more, can I still get 3 in the two regions that my site is actually supposed to score in, or is my site limited by the regions in which it is supposed to score regardless of what the opponent's score? |
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Post by ironcladtrash on Aug 3, 2012 16:44:28 GMT -5
Has anybody tried to see what happens with Deceptive sites or agents and Maffeo/Georgios? If I have a deceptive site with 3 influence in a region where your score is 3 or more, can I still get 3 in the two regions that my site is actually supposed to score in, or is my site limited by the regions in which it is supposed to score regardless of what the opponent's score? I believe it's the latter it should be limited by the score in the other regions. But good question and not 100% sure because I never score when I am playing a deck with the Maffeo/Georgios combo. |
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Post by Hurdler on Aug 9, 2012 8:04:54 GMT -5
I've looked at the issue, and the scoring is not done by the player himself, but rather by the fact the opponent loose influence and that influence is given back to the player.
I'm not sure if that's what should happen in Marc's mind, but if not, I don't see this as a big issue.
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Post by Rob (Roebidoebi) on Sept 24, 2012 8:02:14 GMT -5
Any memory that normally reduces the opponents score actually scores when given defender.
So if you have a site with both defender and dominant, the site doesn't score its normal influence when Maffeo/Kostas are in play but it does score the "dominant part" (i.e. the points it would normally reduce the opponents score by).
It is very consistent, so I'll mark it as "not a bug" until Marc decides he had something else in mind.
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