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Post by lurifaxb on Aug 13, 2012 0:32:34 GMT -5
Lol guys!
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Post by ruggeder on Aug 13, 2012 0:36:49 GMT -5
Sure, sure it's everyone else's fault . It's just the way the game is now, so it's all good. I look forward to the rest of the games and to league 2. I will probably still pick a fun creative deck no matter what i say and avoid discard and counter, so I should stop commentating on them and just move on at this point
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Post by lurifaxb on Aug 13, 2012 0:46:04 GMT -5
It's all for the fun and honor. If some people want to play decks bordering the abusive it just reflects back on them. But yes, I believe there should be no restrictions this time. If people bring decks that are not fun and people hate it, then we can set restrictions next time. It's a conscience thing
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Post by falkinator2000 on Aug 13, 2012 3:48:21 GMT -5
Hi again ruggeder. I am glad to hear you didn’t take offense. I don’t think you should count 5 losses against me. One advantage of this league system is that you are not obliged to play 5 games against everybody if you don’t want to. So I plan on marking a single W next to your name (even if you hadn’t quit, I think I was a bit ahead). The final 4 games will not be played and that’s fine with me. It seems there are other decks you don’t want to face. That’s fine, don’t play them! As you said, we’re here to have fun. ---- Now, regarding Ritual Sacrifice (Faith, 4 cost, +1 income, select a memory in opponents hand, put it in your hand), unsurprisingly I don’t think this is a glitch. Did the devs confirm it as such?
The way it works is in fact consistent with every other memory I can think of. Take for example Nico. He forces a discard from my own hand. If he resolves when my hand is empty, I can tap confirm without losing a card since I don’t have any. But if I am slow to tap confirm, I might draw a card in the meantime, and then I have to select a card to discard before tapping confirm. I am OK with that, and I think this is as intended. Further, consider these 2 cases: A) If ritual sacrifice resolves while you have 1 card in hand and you then draw a card, I am able to steal the newly drawn card as well as the one that was in your hand when ritual sacrifice resolved. B) If ritual sacrifice resolves while you have 0 cards in hand and you then draw a card, I am able to steal the newly drawn card. I don’t think there is much difference between these two situations. By the way, most of us have complained that the carrousel is frustrating to use because it updates with new cards in the relevant zone (archive in the case of Ancestral discovery, own hand in the case of Nico or the green draw 2 discard 1). But the carrousel updating is a sign that this is what was intended, and I fully agree with that. Otherwise, how long a you allowed to look at your opponent’s hand with Holy day (0 cost +2 income, erase 11 costers)? What if opponent had an ancient map in hand and used it while you were looking at his hand with holy day? Sure thing, any newly drawn 11 costers will be erased. I would be extremely surprised if this isn’t what was intended. The situation with ritual sacrifice is exactly the same IMO. As a third example, imagine I just resolved ritual sacrifice. I see a hand with ancient map. If my opponent cast ancient map, should I then not be able to steal a card (because his hand was empty for the shortest of times)? And why should that situation be different if he had 2 ancient maps in hand instead of 1? My last point is this: If ritual sacrifice should auto-fail when opponent has no memories in hand, why not have it auto-steal if opponent only has 1 memory in hand?
Maybe we should take this discussion to somewhere more public in the hope of hearing more input?
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Post by Educatedcollins on Aug 13, 2012 3:54:43 GMT -5
I agree with your points.
Until something about this is changed, this is how the game mechanics are going to work. We are going to have to deal around it, or use it to our advantage.
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Post by lurifaxb on Aug 13, 2012 4:31:39 GMT -5
I just remember you saying last patch that ritual sacrifice wasn't any good as it couldn't keep the lockdown going. That was when it didn't work like now. Now you play many of them and argue it is intended Of cause there is a grey line here. Unintentionally not clicking agree in time happens. Yes, the carousel sucks. Waiting half a day or just until new card is drawn may not be unintentional. No I don't think it is confirmed from developers yet. I'll have to see. It was very recent that someone brought it up. But there is no accusing of unfair play. I'm stating something that you may not be aware of. It isn't regarded as well seen if you play the card like that - until a final decision is made. Much like the uncounterable silvio.
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Post by falkinator2000 on Aug 13, 2012 5:18:12 GMT -5
Lurifax: Yes, I said that And actually I still think so. Divine intervention lockdown is very easy to maintain, while ritual sacrifice lockdown is much harder. I have maybe 70% success in stealing the card before my opponent launches it. With DI I am close to 100%. Ritual sacrifice was one of the last cards on my include list. It’s only in because I expect to face many counter decks (card advantage is paramount). If counter decks weren’t everywhere, I’d much prefer Papal Influence. That card often kills more or less out of nowhere. Also, I wasn’t aware that it was different in last patch. I only very recently discovered how it played. This moved the card from a possible 1-2 of to a 4 of in the deck’s current iteration. I argue it is intended primarily because it is consistent with how everything works. Sorry that I sound overly defensive here, I notice your smiley. But I am taking quite a bit of pride in playing fairly and I really want to be percieved as a fair player by the community. I see your newest thread on the subject, I hope we'll get a dev answer.
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Post by lurifaxb on Aug 13, 2012 5:48:41 GMT -5
No worries. I know you play fair. I couldn't find the bug report on this, so I made a new. As long as it isn't confirmed a bug you cant call it exploiting. Just be warned that some may see it that way.
Personally I think it is a bug like the uncounterable Silvio is. But that doesn't really matter. We need confirmation.
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Post by Rob (Roebidoebi) on Aug 13, 2012 7:52:38 GMT -5
Ruggeder, reading the above I assume your not looking forward to playing my Abbazia/Maria deck. If so just let me know. I desperately need 5 wins for my track record So far I don't think Maria/Abbazia is abusive. It is strong when it works, but as any combo it can be (easily) broken. You just need to take into account that you can run into these kind of decks. Same as I need to take self-inflating thieves into account when building my deck... (hint, hint) Based on the results so far, I've lost way more than I won and Collins' more versatile deck has won 2/3 of his games - I have no idea how many were thanks to the combo. I think this proves that the combo on it's own is not OP. What the league does prove, is that Assassins Stronghold is by far the strongest card out there. That one is near abusive...
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Post by jeremyat on Aug 13, 2012 9:22:13 GMT -5
If Ritual Sacrifice is WAI, then Holy Day is not. If your opponent has no cards in hand when Holy Day resolves, it automatically leaves play and you get the +2 income. It seems to me that since the operation of the cards is essentially the same (Holy Day requires confirmation on your part before the 11-cost cards are exiled), then they should work similarly. Something's bugged.
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Post by ruggeder on Aug 13, 2012 12:12:01 GMT -5
To Rob, I will play everyone once at least, so I would gladly take my shot at the deck . As far as ritual sacrifice, I view it as a bug, like I assume most people do. Like I said, you sem like a good player and I would gladly play against you with different decks. Everyone on the board for the most part seem like good people and good players, and I have fun playing against everyone. There are a lot of cards that could use a tweak, but until then, it will be interesting to see what cards are truly "broken".
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Post by Educatedcollins on Aug 13, 2012 12:51:42 GMT -5
Ruggeder, reading the above I assume your not looking forward to playing my Abbazia/Maria deck. If so just let me know. I desperately need 5 wins for my track record So far I don't think Maria/Abbazia is abusive. It is strong when it works, but as any combo it can be (easily) broken. You just need to take into account that you can run into these kind of decks. Same as I need to take self-inflating thieves into account when building my deck... (hint, hint) Based on the results so far, I've lost way more than I won and Collins' more versatile deck has won 2/3 of his games - I have no idea how many were thanks to the combo. I think this proves that the combo on it's own is not OP. What the league does prove, is that Assassins Stronghold is by far the strongest card out there. That one is near abusive... Yea, your right Rob, after playing so many games I got to admit that this deck is Soo not as cheap as everyone thinks it is. More than half of my games the combo never even comes out. What's Really good/abusive in the decks is the freaking Magical Assassin stronghold and then "I'm a shut you down and win the game at the same time counter sites." At this point, assassin strongholds and the counter sites needs more of a nerd than the combo (the combo l still needs nerfing though)
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Post by Tuism on Aug 14, 2012 7:31:48 GMT -5
My view on the Maria combo is that decks that have it, rely on it. And any deck relying on a single thing will inevitably fail. I think decks that don't rely on the combo but has it will do best. How to build a deck like that? I haven't tried yet.
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Post by Educatedcollins on Aug 14, 2012 7:41:37 GMT -5
My view on the Maria combo is that decks that have it, rely on it. And any deck relying on a single thing will inevitably fail. I think decks that don't rely on the combo but has it will do best. How to build a deck like that? I haven't tried yet. I don't rely on it o.O? Oh, you'll talking about me. KK
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Post by Rob (Roebidoebi) on Aug 15, 2012 1:59:58 GMT -5
My view on the Maria combo is that decks that have it, rely on it. And any deck relying on a single thing will inevitably fail. I think decks that don't rely on the combo but has it will do best. How to build a deck like that? I haven't tried yet. My deck is more geared towards the combo and getting it out fast. I think I have about 10 cards in my deck that are completely useless if I draw them mid or late game. But I have won games as well without the combo. Collin's deck is better in that respect. It's less dependent on the combo, and you see that is the results as well. He is doing far better than I am. I think this deck is an excellent example of a deck being able to run the combo, but not being dependent on it.
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