[Deck Building] Deck Size: What is the best?

[Raphael Majere]

I would love to hear all your insights on this.

I NEVER go beyond 50. For ACR. That's just me. For now.

What are the benefits/problems of larger decks, if any?

[Tuism]

To me, this is a no-brainer. 50 is the best size. There are currently NO reason to go otherwise because I've only ever run out cards on ONE occasion - the Forgotten Temple mirror-match lol

The red site that mills cards have never ever gotten popular, and I don't see it being the case. Although a deck that runs 3 of them on the board means taking 12 cards out of your deck every day. 4 days = 48 cards... But what are the likelihood of you getting 3 out? Someone should build a deck like that and see how viable it is

The more cards you have the less chance you have to get to the cards you really need, and if you NEED all 51 or 65 or 120 cards or whatever, then you're most likely doing it wrong

That said, I regularly stay at 51 cards for most of my decks because of my inability to decide which card's more important to have 5 rather than 4 of

[Raphael Majere]

I was also thinking of other things:

Like royal decree. (if playing an ally only deck), strategic assault, target practice, Animus Reboot, Glitch.

These seems like good cards that any deck can add. But I usually don't.

What do you guys think?

[Tuism]

If you're adding in Heirlooms to tutor for them then you should build that into your deck. If you have one copy of some card that's gonna save your ass in a pinch, good luck drawing them in a 1/44 (after first draw) or 1/60 or whatever chance. Too risky.

Again, does it support your deck? If it does then something else probably doesn't. 50 cards! Or 51 at the most

[Raphael Majere]

LOL, would love to hear from JoolsITA. He plays 60+ card decks and he beats me.

[Diomedia]

I played against a deck with 3 of these sites last night, i ran out of memories but I copied the sites so he ran out just after me. all I had in my hand was 1 scientific espionage and 1 clothes make the man, as soon as I had run out he cast ancestral discovery.. I thought HAHA I have you now ... He then cast judgement day , then doomsday. To top it off all he had left on the board was a hard worker 1/1 , wasn't waiting around for that to conclude sorry.

I'm used facing discard decks and I have no problem with people playing them, it's just for me they always seem to lead to long drawn out games, I can't try Bronto's yet ( the lanz one) but I really want to .

Sorry that was off topic, I try to stay with 50 but the thing that I'm not sure about ,is cards like tactical upheaval. I mean it draws another card , it gives +1 gold , it's a Suprise and it can be useful in its own right. Why not auto include 5? I don't but should I?

[Tuism]

Re upheaval, can you always be sure you'll be able to use it? If an opponent hasn't any agents and you have 0 powered agents at all, it'll be a dead card. So if you're willing to take that risk or if you have very few low powered agents, and you have no other card you need, or you anticipate a lot of Dante's and Americos (if they hurt your deck especially bad) then sure why not have 5

[Tuism]

Cool story btw, haha funny that you actually got grinded to zero. Never seen it happen yet

[Diomedia]

It actually drained my cards pretty quick, it's a like an uber discard deck. He must have had a good draw though to get 3 up so soon. I imagine he Also had the rare site thats an autowin if opponent has no memories left, but it got sent to the archives

It's the first time I've faced it and it's seems pretty good, I mean how do you counter a well timed doomsday with a judgement day , get put in a discard lock and then run out of cards quickly, so you can't even hope for drawing a decent card or a mistimed discard. With the site that auto wins , it ends it more quickly as that's your quicker win con, rather than relying on your weak discard agents.

It's certainly no fun to play against but I guess it's fun to play if your that way inclined. Props to the person who created it

[Brontobeuf]

50 cards in 95% of the decks.
I can only see a deck going above with a huuuuge draw power and some tutors in it.

[crazygambit]

Jan 19, 2012 12:04:46 GMT -5 Tuism said:

Cool story btw, haha funny that you actually got grinded to zero. Never seen it happen yet

I once killed myself with a Daring Experiment, not realizing that site was in play.

[Tuism]

Jan 19, 2012 14:35:23 GMT -5 crazygambit said:

Jan 19, 2012 12:04:46 GMT -5 Tuism said:

Cool story btw, haha funny that you actually got grinded to zero. Never seen it happen yet

I once killed myself with a Daring Experiment, not realizing that site was in play.

Hahaha cool story. Although it must have been a helluva boring loooongass game for you to Daring for so many cards

[mana]

i agree with bronto here. in most of my decks i have over 50 cards (maximum of 60) but those 10+ cards have to be strong drawers or tutors. i just feel like tutors are a big advantage because they higher the chances of getting a card that really helps you out in your current situation (eg. heirloom can bring out many solutions like historial glitch, reboot, condo tactics, tactical upheavel etc). in my opinion tutors can always be included even when you are over 50 if your deck can handle the decrease of speed. its like you can increase the probability to draw ANY gold card (in the example of heirloom) you want so overall it gives you higher chances to draw a card you need to get the card you need even though u have lower chances to really draw that card you need sry for the last sentence.

mathwise its clear what i mean i guess...

probability to draw exactly the card you need: amount of cards you need in deck/decksize
probability to draw the card you need + all the cards which can give you that card: amount of all that cards/decksize

so example:

decksize 50 without tutors:
after initial draw you want a reboot out of 2 in your deck: 2/44 =0,045

decksize 53 with 3 heirlooms more in your deck
after initial draw you want a reboot or a heirloom to get reboot: 5/47 = 0,106

as you can see you more than doubled your chances. BUT you dont only doubled the chances to get reboot. you also increased the chances of ANY other goldcard to get in your hands.

In agressive fast decks you dont want any tutors because you lose alot of speed if you draw tutors early on which you cant support with your money. but tutors are very strong in control decks where you want to slowly build up a perfect defense or combo against your enemy (but also dont put in to many because your starting hand still shouldnt be stacked with tutors only exept they are resourceboosting ones)

anybody wants to write a guide on this?




edited alot sry tuism

[Tuism]

And well, that's the point - can your deck handle the decrease in speed, and if so, why don't you speed it up even more by dropping it to 50?

To fit 4/5 more cards into a deck means deciding that another 4/5 cards can do with 4 cards each instead of 5. If ALL the cards have a place I would still try go for 50 rather than 55.

Try Like I said I get stuck at 51 more often than not

[crazygambit]

mana: your math is super wrong. However, indeed your chances of drawing a gold card increase dramatically. Unfortunately your chances of drawing anything else will decrease as well. So if you have other key cards in your deck, you'll be drawing them less.

The chances of getting a Reboot in your first 10 cards is 36% in the first case and 67% in the second. A clear improvement. Adding the tutors on a 50 card deck means a 69% chance of drawing one on your first 10 cards (including the 6 of your starting hand).