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Post by ironcladtrash on Oct 4, 2012 22:29:51 GMT -5
Great game again tonight. Another longer game that was fun the whole time. I think your crime/scholar destruction/draw deck is the strongest in the game right now. The Ezio Mentor in it was too much for me to overcome. Is there anything you find that you lose too with that deck other than a bad starting hand to a rush deck?
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Post by lurifaxb on Oct 5, 2012 0:19:11 GMT -5
Surprise doomsday? A good Courtesan rush? (A good) Deceptive agent rush? Self discard site 11, then buff with deceptive? Doomsday forgotten temple combo?
I don't know what Rob's deck is like but my (all time favorite) deck that sounds similar has trouble against these due to their speed or elimination of your hand. Plus the surprise speed of winning cards make scientific espionage too slow to stop it (not enough income when when intimidation or the like I deployed).
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Post by coolkendude on Oct 5, 2012 0:37:35 GMT -5
Great game, ICT!
I actually thought of quitting mid-game when you had card advantage with your Leo's - I'm glad I decided to stick around.
I'm not sure if it's the strongest but it definitely is competitive. It's a hard deck to play because you have lots of choices to make as the game progresses and I usually have long games when I play this deck. But yeah, other than a bad starting hand against rush decks (site, militant, noble, deceptive, femme fatale, etc.) and bad decisions on my part, it can match up pretty well with all kinds of decks. A pure discard deck my also give me problems but i haven't faced one for quite some time now. Also, because its raw power is based on a combo, it takes a while for me to set it up and so I usually find myself behind most of the games I play with that deck. But I don't mind being in that position because once it gets going, it's pretty hard to stop.
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Post by coolkendude on Oct 5, 2012 0:40:59 GMT -5
Surprise doomsday? A good Courtesan rush? (A good) Deceptive agent rush? Self discard site 11, then buff with deceptive? Doomsday forgotten temple combo? I don't know what Rob's deck is like but my (all time favorite) deck that sounds similar has trouble against these due to their speed or elimination of your hand. Plus the surprise speed of winning cards make scientific espionage too slow to stop it (not enough income when when intimidation or the like I deployed). The deck I used against ICT tonight was a variant of your Gaspar deck, powered by Ox for infinite income - but I also have Lighthouse in there in case I need to reduce the other player's score. You should really add Ox to your Gaspar deck, lurifax - it's awesome!
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Post by lurifaxb on Oct 5, 2012 0:57:25 GMT -5
ok I think you are right. I use Ox in many other decks and love it. It will be really good with Gaspar and mentor combo. Insane income fuel. How do your version do against courtesan rush (mass courtesans, bearer of mixed tidings, militia intimidation and femme fatale)? This courtesan one is so strong this meta (and gay). With no agents campaigning and massive draw it is so hard to compete against. This type of deck is the new OP as you need very specific cards to stop it (or luck). Gladly not a lot of people has figured it out but it is on the rise. Sadly. It's 2x solitaire.
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Post by coolkendude on Oct 5, 2012 7:44:52 GMT -5
How do your version do against courtesan rush (mass courtesans, bearer of mixed tidings, militia intimidation and femme fatale)? Not that well, unless they have a bad starting hand and I have Sci Esp in the beginning to stop BoMT. I find that BoMT is the key card in courtesan rush; stop the multiple draws and I have a chance - but I usually lose against them.
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Post by lurifaxb on Oct 5, 2012 8:26:50 GMT -5
Me 2 They can also sneak the BoMT through early with a militia intimidation making your sci ESP just sit and wait for the next thing to come. That deck deserves a surprise doomsday (or wrath of the righteous)!
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Post by Rob (Roebidoebi) on Oct 5, 2012 9:46:49 GMT -5
The one card (Tactical upheaval) that could easily break any Courtesan deck has unfortunately been nerfed into oblivion... there are not a lot of people who still play it.
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Post by ironcladtrash on Oct 5, 2012 10:28:09 GMT -5
The one card (Tactical upheaval) that could easily break any Courtesan deck has unfortunately been nerfed into oblivion... there are not a lot of people who still play it. Exactly, but I don't think this a bad thing. Courtesan decks weren't really any good before but now after the nerf this and many other strategies are a possibility that weren't. Before the expansion I thought it was the counter/draw decks that were over powered, but since counters have been nerfed I am starting to think it may be destruction/draw decks.
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Post by lurifaxb on Oct 5, 2012 10:46:16 GMT -5
Any deck that is not fun to be played against shouldn't be too powerful. As a complete surprise they should work. The problem is that totally unfun games vs courtesans are auto lose vs most decks people would play. Courtesans are simply too good now. Awesome draw, awesome income, awesome stopping power, cheap win effect etc.
Only Achilles heel is removing FEmme Fatale from the deck with that faith card. Problem is you have to play specifically against that. Otherwise I see all agent killers (again faith is best) and all card removal (yes, faith with doomsday).
Decks like courtesans, counters, income denial, all cards removals, are bad for the game because they are not fun. If they were played just some times and as a surprise it would be ok. You could easily deal with it if your deck is build properly. Right now courtesans take too much to deal with (income decrease is fine, counters are fine). There are NO interaction in that game. If you like this kind of game I suggest solitaire.
I seriously built a version of my merchants deck with 5x tactless theatrics (edit: changes from PP) and 5 TU besides the good draw and 5 family heirloom to grab the TU that is in this deck I lost games to courtesans. Seriously? It should be an anti courtesan and deceptive rush deck. Turns out it could only deal with deceptive rush properly.
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Post by kackman73 on Oct 5, 2012 11:00:27 GMT -5
The one card (Tactical upheaval) that could easily break any Courtesan deck has unfortunately been nerfed into oblivion... there are not a lot of people who still play it. The one card that absolutely wrecks a Courtesan deck works just fine still: Losing Faith. Courtesan decks tend to not have counters in them (other than SciEsp), so as long as you can get to 4 income in time, you can end the game in your favor pretty early. Considering that many people are now playing Militia Intimidation or Secret Door to make Femme Fatale a surprise, even the old TU wouldn't be as effective.
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Post by lurifaxb on Oct 5, 2012 12:06:35 GMT -5
Yup, that was the card I was referring too. If you get one of these off you win. But it is only faith.This is a problem.
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