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Post by Brontobeuf on Jan 7, 2012 21:16:54 GMT -5
Yopla, As long as it is possible, I'd like to continue throwing original decks in this forum. They may not be as competitive as the classics, but they are not weak at all. This one is a very interesting one because of all the synergies that are hidden in it. I'll talk about all of them in the end. 5 Knowledge is Power 5 Forced Charity (Tactical Upheaval can replace it, but poorly) 3 Behind Closed Doors 5 Scientific Espionnage (needed sadly) 5 Lassitude (if you don't have them, add Amerigo Vespucci or Fiora Cavazza) 2 Engineer's Workroom (Architect's Sanctum can replace it) 3 Rosa in Fiore (City Stables can replace that) 5 Palazzo Library 2 Venezia, San Paolo district 5 Scholar's Den 5 Assassins Guild 3 Military Workshop 1 Secret Catacomb 1 Academy of Physics PLAYBOOK It's a hard one to play. I still do a lot (yes, a lot) of mistakes when I'm playing it. Because you really have to anticipate your next potential draws to play it well. Against site-based decks. You will try to play Venezia and the Catacombs helped by Palazzo and the Academy. Behind Closed Door can also help. Scientific Espionnage on Judgement day or Pontifical Himasses will give you the game. Against Agent-based decks. You will pump your influence and try to play a Military Workshop or two asap. While you achieve that, you will play with Assassins Guild, Academy and Palazzo to keep them at bay. If things start to get ugly, use a Lassitude. Against combo-based decks. Try to pump your influence while drawing a lot of card with the Den and the bumps played on them. And for God's sake, don't burn your Scientific Espionnage on something that will not kill you! Behind Closed Door. This card is one of the most complex card to play in the game. But it synergize well with Palazzo (if you move it somewhere, you take back the destination site) and the Military Workshop. You can move your sites to increase your influence where it's needed, either to prevent them from attacking, or just to score. Usually, I try to move sites where I have no intent to score anymore (either because I'll stay at 0, or because I have 10 already). No Engineer? I choose to play 0 Agents to give dead cards in the opponent's hand. Some Engineers would have been good additions to the decks. Feel free to try them. No Field Study? Drawing card should not be the problem. Ressources, most of the time, are. Don't forget that you can put the Academy of Physics in the 3rd region to fill your hand with Den. Also, if you didn't noticed it already, I play 20 cards who replaces themselves (Knowledge is Power, Forced Charity, Engineer's Workroom, Scholar's Den & Behind Closed Doors) Too slow? Yep, with a bad hand, it can be too slow to face a Pantheon/Ri deck. But what deck is not?  As usual, feel free to use, comment and enjoy it!  |
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Post by Tuism on Jan 7, 2012 23:29:32 GMT -5
Wow so interesting I tried to build a site deck with art gallery and behind closed doors. Interesting concept but couldnt get it to work. Brontobeuf I really appreciate you throwing original deck ideas into the mix all the time. Keep it up bud! |
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Post by Tuism on Mar 11, 2012 16:51:10 GMT -5
Just built this deck to play with as I s looking for new deck ideas and went trolling in our decks archive. This one is really fun, VERY hard to play but so very interesting synergies.
I wonder what Bronto is up to, his deck ideas have always been the most original!
Hope you come back with some new thoughts, especially now after all the balancing!
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Post by mrsuperb on Mar 12, 2012 3:57:19 GMT -5
so many rares in most of these cool decks, hope they open the auction house soon so I can join in on the conversation!
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Post by The Rancord on Mar 12, 2012 14:35:41 GMT -5
Dont forget, that its hard to judge a deck's effectivness as long as we dont ahve a propper ranking system.
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Post by Tuism on Mar 12, 2012 14:58:53 GMT -5
Judging effectiveness isnt ever really going to be empirical, I like decks cos I like playing it and it can win this deck fulfills those conditions for me, without being retardedly cheesy at all. And I definitely can't wait for the auction house too |
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Post by UnCL0NED on Mar 13, 2012 3:51:20 GMT -5
I also tried this (sort of) deck yesterday. It is a lot of fun to play, but it requires also a lot of advanced decision making.
I think it is too slow to be competitive (although I won quite a few games). It works well once you have enough gold to keep things rolling.
I'm now creating a deck based on my old green/black site-rush deck and a few of the cards in here. I am trying to make it more aggressive/competitive...
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Post by UnCL0NED on May 8, 2012 3:40:25 GMT -5
... It's been a while since I've updated my own version, but the last 3 days I've been at it again and I've updated it to fit the current environment. It's just a lot of fun to play a site control deck. A relief from all the standard control decks out there. It's doing really well, although I had to put in Against all Odds to keep it competitive. It still struggles against Crime decks who have a good starting hand. They tend to have a lot/enough site destruction. The other type of decks that kill this deck (which I don't like in general anyway ) are the extreme counter decks. I feel these decks are too strong (and boring  ) most of the time anyway. Here's my take: [Scholar/Crime] Construction Sites
Income:5x Merchant Ship 3x Coy Courtesan 2x Rosa in Fiore 5x Forced Charity Protection:
5x Against all Odds (counter Lanz/Papal Influence/Animus Reboot and other big threads) 5x Scientific Espionage (protect your sites) Some Juggling:
3x Behind Closed Doors (to juggle Pallazzo Library and Forli) Sites:
5x Palazzo Library (to re-use your sites) 5x Architect's Sanctum (get what you need at surprise speed, a bit buggy  ) 1x Venezia, San Polo District (sometimes better than Secret Cats.) 1x Private Study (fun to play on a region which is controlled by opponent) 5x Assassins Guild (you know when to use these) 3x Secret Catacombs (thank you for your site) 2x Forli (get one out asap to become a real threat) Bronto explained how to play this deck, pretty well. I'd only like to add that Architetect's Sanctum is way more awesome than Engineer's Workroom . Because you play so many sites, you can always have one or two to sacrifice. If somebody plays a site deck, exchange your Ass. Guilds. for Secret Catacombs and visa versa. I never had a shortage on cards to play. Only maybe sometimes a bad hand. Have fun! |
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Post by Brontobeuf on May 8, 2012 3:59:53 GMT -5
I'm gonna try to try it. Looks fun. :]
My current version is totally different now. I'm not sure if I published it or not yet, but it's with Gaspar and a lot more faster than this old of mine there.
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Post by kwunyinli on May 26, 2012 1:33:19 GMT -5
The other type of decks that kill this deck (which I don't like in general anyway ) are the extreme counter decks. I feel these decks are too strong (and boring ) most of the time anyway. Protection:
5x Against all Odds (counter Lanz/Papal Influence/Animus Reboot and other big threads) 5x Scientific Espionage (protect your sites) Sorry, I just like to point out the irony. You hate extreme counter decks and they are boring, and yet 1/5 of your SITE deck is counters.. I myself have been recently working on a SITE deck with these two colours. I feel that Engineer Workshop is very good in avoiding counters, but my deck is no where near as strong as Brontobeuf's or UnCL0NED's. That said, I think Crime/Scholar site decks have a lot of potential, and I'd like to see this deck continue with the strategy based on Palazzo Library/Site. Mine is more of a big site deck, but after looking at Brontobeuf's list, I think I'll be moving in that direction. I think utility sites are more interesting for this deck. The ability of Engineer's Workshop to avoid counters and fetch up strong sites makes this deck very interesting. I think Monteriggioni is a good start if counter decks are a weakness. My list is running Amerigo Vespucci, but I like the strategy with Lassitude better. From my other deck, you'll know that I like to blank my opponents of cards such as Untimely End. Running not agents will make this strategy even stronger. I also like Brontobeuf's strategy of having cards that replace itself. I think this helps fuel the deck. |
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Post by UnCL0NED on May 27, 2012 1:50:17 GMT -5
The other type of decks that kill this deck (which I don't like in general anyway ) are the extreme counter decks. I feel these decks are too strong (and boring ) most of the time anyway. Protection:
5x Against all Odds (counter Lanz/Papal Influence/Animus Reboot and other big threads) 5x Scientific Espionage (protect your sites) Sorry, I just like to point out the irony. You hate extreme counter decks and they are boring, and yet 1/5 of your SITE deck is counters.. I talk about extreme counter decks, where your playstyle is to just sit back and counter everything that is put out on the table... Until you accumulate enough to play your 1 or 2 killcards. Mine works the other way around where I need them to protect my own sites... But yeah, I wish I could do without the counters. It's like Bronto mentioned... It's necessary unfortunately! Of course I'm very curious to your version. btw, My main deck for grinding 500$ atm is a very (not extreme HEHEHE) counter deck... |
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Post by kwunyinli on May 27, 2012 9:46:52 GMT -5
Sorry, I just like to point out the irony. You hate extreme counter decks and they are boring, and yet 1/5 of your SITE deck is counters.. I talk about extreme counter decks, where your playstyle is to just sit back and counter everything that is put out on the table... Until you accumulate enough to play your 1 or 2 killcards. Mine works the other way around where I need them to protect my own sites... But yeah, I wish I could do without the counters. It's like Bronto mentioned... It's necessary unfortunately! Of course I'm very curious to your version. btw, My main deck for grinding 500$ atm is a very (not extreme HEHEHE) counter deck... Oh, I can't afford forced charity right now, so I think I have to put this project on hold. I realize your concern, but that's why I think Monteriggioni is a good start if counter decks are a weakness. I think what you should do to improve the deck is to try to get rid of the elements that bother you or don't really synergies with it. I think your massive amounts of counters is one of these things I'd look to get rid of. It's true that Brontobeuf said its necessary, but he only plays 5 which is a much more reasonable call for defense. 1/5 of your deck just seems excessive. I'm not hating on your list, I'm just trying to suggest an alternative like Monteriggioni and engineer workroom to combat counters. Edit: to be fair about criticism, I'll post my list here. It looks like garbage now because it's in transition, but im sure you'll understand 5 Knowledge is Power 5 plentiful crop 3 Behind Closed Doors 4 Against all odds 5 animus reboot 3 Engineer's Workroom 3 Merchant ship 5 Palazzo Library 2 Venezia, San Paolo district 5 Scholar's Den 5 Assassins Guild 3 Military Workshop 1 Secret Catacomb 1 Academy of Physics As you can see, I've modified Bronotbeuf's list due to financial and other reasons. I don't really understand the need to play Rosa in FlorE. Could someone explain? It seems slow. I feel force charity is pretty essential, so I'm aiming to get that next. I chose to play animus reboot instead of lassitude because I think if I'm already losing, then I might as well destroy everything. Lassitude has a big weakness in that agents keep their abilities. That sucks. I also shaved on the counters and upped the workroom because Scientific Espionage doesn't stop Venezia, which is the only threat I'm concerned with anyway. I plan to build up to forced charity and scientific espionage because they seem to keep fuel in the deck. I have noticed that even with this budget build, in the mid game, my hand is jammed full of cards, so I think animus reboot won't be an issue. |
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Post by UnCL0NED on May 29, 2012 2:21:50 GMT -5
I get your point (a bit), but the counters are not in there to "counter" my opponents counters, but to secure my own sites. I lost too often before against a Doomsday or an Animus Reboot or that last Papal Influence... I also played monterigionni before in this deck, but it sets things back too much... The idea behind this deck is that you gain control over the game, and not to score asap. That's also why I prefer Architect's Sanctum over Enigineer Workroom. You keep one site in your hand and get what you need the minute you see your opponent play a memory. And you can do it much more often than a one time EW. Rosa in Fiore a card I use to generate income (on top of all the other cards) and also a lot as fodder for Arch. Sanctum. In your deck I just don't understand 5x Animus Reboot. Well AR in general is very strange in a heavy site deck. You instantly get rid of everything you have build up until then. And I would suggest an extra Secret Catacombs over Venezia in this deck, because against other site decks, it's much more profitable. Venezia is only nice in rare occasions (like on a Pantheon or something). GL with your deck construction. |
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Post by kwunyinli on May 29, 2012 11:22:16 GMT -5
Oh thanks for the feed back. That was quite informative. I understand that's what counters are for. I usually use it more for protecting my sites from being destroyed, not from counters. I see what you mean though.
Yeah, I realized that it takes over the game slowly. I'm considering architect's sanctum, but it seems far slower and does not protect important sites from entering like workroom does, so I think I'll stick with my workrooms. I might try to find a place for sanctum though.
The animus reboots are to reset the game when I'm getting overrun. It doesn't matter if you blow up a site or two when you clear their sites and all of their agents. That said, I'm not really liking animus reboot. I rarely get. Chance to use it. I never really lose to getting mobbed. It's usually a slow and painful way to lose. Thas why I might change back to lassitude,
Merchant ship seems better than rosa in Flores.
Also, thanks for the tip about secret catacombs. I'm actually really liking that card, so I'm probably going to go with your suggestion,
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) most of the time anyway. 
)