I just cant build decks!!

[Zed]

Guys (and any gals out there),

I am really struggling to find a decent deck out of the cards I have. I have a ton of cards, but the majority appear to be the crap filler cards. I see everyone here building decks with a total of 10 different cards and I just dont have enough sets of 5 to do this competitivley so I always seems to struggle with what to put into my decks to make them valid whilst also being usefull.

The majority of the time I get a deck with the key agents/actions that I want and then it gets so diluted with crap I never actually want!!

short of buying a ton of cards, is there anything I can do?

I have a google doc with all my card counts if someone wanted a giggle and to see if I am being dumb or if I actually cant make a competitive deck?

I have listed all of the rare cards at the top as well as list them in the idividual colours.

docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Ar_H_9UomlzZdDZkRW5fNi16RnU3QW13V05OYzdMV2c

Really love the game, just need some Eurica moment when it comes to deck building (this is the first CCG I have ever played BTW).

Any suggestions at all?

[Brontobeuf]

No Google docs in China, sry.

Edit: I can be more helpfull than that.

Each deck has to setup a few core things before adding the cards in it.

- the balance between the win condition and control
- the balance between speed and advantage

The first ratio is easy to define. If you want to rush, you will certainly play 80% of cards that will gain score in regions with Agents/Sites or help them, and 20% of cards that will allow you to control opponent cards (discard, card destruction, counterspells).
That's a choice the deck builder is the only one to make.

When you got that, you just have to look at the cards you own and ask yourself: "is this card helping me doing what I want to achieve?" if yes, add it.

The second ratio is a bit more complex in a game like this one, because the tempo is more important here, in a real time battle, than in a classic ccg.
You have to select your cards according to their cost and the ressource bonus they give or not give.

Once you have your pool of cards reduced to this mass, usually something between 70 and 90 cards, you have to reduce it to 50 by selecting what you think is best.

Then only, you can start playing against the AI too adjust it according to your feelings.

The last step is the versus button.

[Zed]

grr @ the great firewall of china, I handily have downloaded it and attached the xls on this post

Attachments:

[Brontobeuf]

I think that only your Scholar and Faith pools are quite weak. Avoid themas maincolors, and it should be ok.
I was expecting less cards according to your post.

[Zed]

but how do I keep the deck consistent? I would normally pick for instance cesare borgia as the main agent/win with a intervention aswell and so I would then try and build the rest of the deck around draw/counter/boosters but always I end up with hand after hand of nothing but boosters and no draw or if I do draw I just get boosters or counters........ It always feels unbalanced to the point that I never get the agents I need and end up with 30-40 gold per game and nowt to spend it on lol


seriously tempted to use calling all standins, but again that never comes in when I have 40 gold lol

[Tuism]

I'm not as experienced in the CCG thing as half the guys here, so half of deckbuilding for me comes in the playing - if I play a couple games with a deck I generally have a good feeling for its strength/weakness, and that's where the single player thing is good - you can test against a variety of decks QUICKLY without having to handle the piss stress of battling ACE decks and DOUBIOUS connection issues.

While I'm playing, I keep things in mind, like:

1) Am I getting too many/too little gold? Am I not able to launch half the memories in my hand before the game ends? Am I regularly running out of memories and then just waiting for my next card? This has to do with your income/cost ratio.

If you run out of cards regularly your deck could do with less resource boosters (cards which serve NO purpose other than to give income like Inheritance/Crops/Knowledge has a Price [crap card]).

If you can't play half your cards regularly then you need to adjust your costs down or play more boosters.

These are minor adjustments, 10 cards at a time is a lot. So tweak tweak tweak.

2) Am I able to push the same button enough to win? A deck must know how to win. Most decks are strong against one type of threat but strong against another. If a deck has a lot of anti-agent then their site destruction will be weak. Vice versa. Same with counters, discards, rush, control, etc. They all balance against something. If your deck tries too hard to do a lot of things then it'll be not very good at all things instead of being very good at one thing.

Your goal is to OVERLOAD one channel of threat. So FOCUS your deck.

3) Am I drawing the cards I want? 5 of everything crucial is important. Failing that, at least keep your deck down to 50 cards. Or thin out your deck with tutors or self-replacing cards like Tactical Upheaval, King's Order, Discreet Calling, Knowledge is Power, Family Heirloom, etc. The more chance you have to get to your key cards, the better.

Am I drawing too much of things I don't need? Sometimes you can sit with 3 RIs and know that your opponent is countering. You wish you had your Cesare. So you should have played less of RIs and more of Cesares (or King's Orders). You CAN have too much of a good thing.

4) Am I constantly failing to the same things? Addressing your deck's weakness could also work in your favour. If you lose a lot to sites (even 2 influence little damn sites), then maybe you should pack some anti-site. (Role Reversal, Mob Justice, Venezia San Polo, etc) If you lose to counters, then you need more threats, etc.

One way of overcoming those weaknesses is also to focus so much in your main threat channel that your weakness doesn't matter - you outpace your weakness.

5) Am I playing cards that my opponent need to deal with? A good measure is to play against a counter-heavy deck and see if you can out-threat your opponent. Every single card you play should have him want to counter it. Or at least as many as possible.


These are just some of the points to consider. The perfect deck, in my mind, will win consistently with very little cards in hand, and with opponent owning one region, because those are things you don't have to worry about when you can take the other two.

My Clothes Makes the Man variations haven't been super successful yet

Lately, I have to admit, I've become a tad lazy and try more to see what Bronto is up to, copy the deck as best as I can, play, tweak, and come up with my own variation. Learning from other people is also important - it'll teach you which cards are good together, how many is good, and seeing them in action drives it into your head.

I think there are more to this, I'll write more later maybe

[Zed]

an example deck that I currently play:

plentiful crop x 4
Nothing ventured x 3
dante x2
Scientific method x4
untimely end x2
forced inheritance x2
royal intervention x2
Octaviano x1
sudden exhaustion x5
Troche x2
borgia tower x2
pick your poison x1
quick study x5
court order x5
in-depth analysis x4
royal decree x1
animus reboot x1
cesare x3

Using my cards listed above how could I streamline this yet still be competitive?

[Tuism]

What's the win condition of this deck? You have SO many income boosters and cards that don't contribute to your end that I bet you regularly run out of cards to play.

Tone it down, instead of playing more great boosters and less cards that actually score or help score, trim down on the boosters. You have... Cesares, Pick your poison, Octaviano, RI, Troche) 8 cards that score, and 2 cards that depend on having 6 of those 8 to score (Borgia Tower).

And you're giving your opponent a LOT of advantage with the Nothing Ventured. Which is only really good if you can insta-kill them, which I don't see as the case. Half your boosters serve no purpose in your deck.

It's ok to play less powerful win-cons. Augustine is a fat dude that does lethal damage if he gets out. Try the nobles. Your 2 Towers are useless most of the time, I'd imagine.

Play and pay attention to the points I mentioned, you'll realise what you need - and go for cards that does things - not "great cards" on paper.

Good luck man

[Zed]

thanks for your help guys, gonna try to sit down tonight and work out a decent deck with what I have. Deffo helps having the cards in a spreadsheet that I can manipulate with (thats the reason I have the google doc) so I am hoping to use that with the deck builder that someone kindly made available to us.