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Post by thest4lker on May 9, 2012 12:54:03 GMT -5
Agree with bronto, you nerf it, and suddenly rush dies, and counter/control owns everything.
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Post by Rob (Roebidoebi) on May 9, 2012 13:17:45 GMT -5
Fully agree with all the don't-nerf-it-ers. It's situational, and if you have 5 in your opening hand it doesn't mean you will win. In fact you will lose with 5 PP's in your opening hand Rush really needs it!
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Post by Tuism on May 9, 2012 13:42:21 GMT -5
I'm glad I'm. It the only one who thinks its not imbalanced not because of itself but the field. I seriously think anyone who has played with it will understand that it's not something that will automatically win you the game. Sure it's great in the opening hand with the right card paired with it, but it's also butt useless if you draw it in mid game. Please please play with it before you call it names
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Post by Pete on May 9, 2012 15:36:09 GMT -5
I think most of us have used it.
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Post by pryingtuna85649 on May 9, 2012 15:45:35 GMT -5
Brilliant Burglary was the one. It was a good idea and something I've never seen used in conjuction with PP at the start of a game, but I know it can't have been the devs intention for there to be any way to make someone start off a game with -1 income. And I don't think making this card work right (ie not bring you above your income limit at the start of a match) will only make control decks competitive. I know I'm not the best player or the highest rank, but I do well with my make shift rush decks. If I had all of the cards, I would imagine my rush decks would definitely be competitive. Consistently competitive at that. But correct me if I'm wrong or misunderstanding...I'm still new to TCG's entirely, so I more than welcome a nudge in the right direction in terms of understanding how things work.
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Post by pryingtuna85649 on May 9, 2012 15:55:48 GMT -5
I haven't used it...I don't have one yet (it's really expensive). It really does seem like a glitch to me and I can't recall a game ever starting that way that didn't result in me losing.
Taking an objective viewpoint, though, it could be because my opponent had all the cards (or more) than me. Good cards doesn't make a good player, I know, but if you have a wider pool of cards to build decks with, it is definitely an advantage. *shrugs* Not saying there's anything wrong with it...I'm working to get there myself, but so many other people have been playing for longer and either have acquired the cards and/or gained the experience through having the game longer.
Anyway, I know I was frustrated in my above post. Sorry. Like I said, I always welcome a push in the right direction of understanding and appreciate objectivity.
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Post by Tuism on May 9, 2012 16:02:44 GMT -5
The fact is, ask Bronto, ask Raph, ask anyone who's been here a while (there are lots and I'm not gonna list). Ask them if they're only building PP decks cos it will win everything. That simply isn't true. If you ask me what my strongest deck is, I wouldn't be able to tell you. If there wasn't PP, I can tell you media will be severely crippled, wiping out half its viable decks. I know you haven't played with it yet, and I'm not trying to tell you to pony up and pay money and buy the cards, you'll get there eventuLly. That's just the nature of a game like this. Just as someone in a multitude of MMOs out there who knows that equipment IS a factor to consider. Trust me Recollection players has it A LOT easier in terms of the investment curve compared to MANY other games out there. Just look at the $0.00 man. My gods that guy must be a genius. An evil genius
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Post by kyleess on May 9, 2012 16:55:02 GMT -5
Honest Worker (is that the right guy) probably doesn't allow you to transcend the income limit because it is reusable. That would be crazy. PP is a one shot card.
With that said, I also don't really like that the resource limit is suspended for it and it alone.
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Post by ironcladtrash on May 9, 2012 18:27:32 GMT -5
Tuna, I liked your rant I really hate that card. Even though it's just media I still think its too much like the lotus from Magic because you can use it to play any color card. The only thing that would make it worse was if it were Gold. I think the same arguments could be made for the a lotus in Magic too, worthless late in game and it alone doesn't win and yet still that card got banned. I am still for nerfing it, but I concede that my opinion is definitely in the minority.
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Post by Brontobeuf on May 9, 2012 20:09:20 GMT -5
If he starts with PP and Brilliant Burglary, he just burnt 2 cards to gain +1 while you can still play a Plentifull Crap and negate all his efforts. Ressource destruction can be very frustrating when it crushes you, but I can tell you, PP or not, it's not competitive at all. Just here, he got the cards, you didn't, and you left. Maybe you should have stayed... who knows? And FYI, PP is my favorite card in this game. Don't touch it!
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Post by thest4lker on May 9, 2012 23:02:34 GMT -5
For the record, you can't get negative income. I know, cause I have used income denial and dropped a guy to what would have been negative income, but come the next day his money was back to 1. Also for the record, I went on to loose that game despite my income advantage, because, as Bronto said, income denial is not competitive right now, even with PP
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Post by Tuism on May 10, 2012 0:32:04 GMT -5
PP supports a high risk play style, it's like gambling. It can be addictive, but you don't win nearly as much as you think you do. Which means you don't nearly lose as much as you think you do playing against a PP deck. Fact: for every game you remember that you saw someone open with a PP move, there are at least double that number when that same deck choked and didn't give him a PP opening move, you just don't remember it cos you didn't lose and/or get frustrated by it. Fact: for every game you quit cos opponent dropped a PP move, at least half of that you could have won if you hadn't. PP drops can be nullified by Untimely End, Plentiful crap like Bronto said, Tactless Theatrics if it were a Lanz, Sudden Exhaustion for most parts, a good old role reversal or mob justice, etc. then you just gained +1 for nothing. Of course you need to be prepared for it, but who can beat counter if not prepared for it? Discard? Rush? It's the same thing. Fact: I'm much More pissed off by counterful and discard decks - not saying they're overpowered, just saying PP is the least of my concerns
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Post by Tuism on May 10, 2012 0:34:35 GMT -5
Oh and resource destruction is ALSO a high risk strategy, so what applies to PP above applies to resource kill too. There are Many More games I've lost with my resource kill deck than won. But I bet no one remembers those ones, but instead they only remember the ones the resource kill has won.
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Post by Altaem on May 10, 2012 9:13:51 GMT -5
Every single one of my competitive decks runs with 5 PP. I loathe discard and counter decks and am very thankful that the game offers me a chance to dump my stuff onto the table before it can be countered.
Yes they win me a lot of games, and they're what keep me in the top 10. BUT... My win rate is shocking. If I don't get a PP I've likely lost. If I get PP but nothing to use it on I've lost. If I play every card by midday day 2 and get nuked I've lost. If I draw it after day 2 it's useless junk.
Yes PP is very powerful, but it's allowed to be, it's an Assassin Rare. Plus it's media. I am so thankful it's not scholar or order or crime or faith. All those have cards that combo better with PP than media does.
I've even tried that PP + steal income from opponent combo. It's my most brutal deck when it works, I've driven the AI down to zero income in testing. But it's an unlikely combo. It only won 20% online, all an opponent needs is a few zero cost income cards and they're completely immune.
I'd rather loose 10 games running to PP decks than face a single dedicated counter deck. It'd likely take less time too.
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Post by gamemaestro on May 10, 2012 18:02:32 GMT -5
I think that several posters put it quite well above. PP has a place in the game and is definitely the correct color (media). I like the card and have played quite a few decks that have dropped one or two PPs off the bat. I've won most of those games because my opponent is giving up 3 cards to one of mine for a speed advantage. I like that trade. Now, if they drop a Doomsday and I have no answer, that is a different story, but that's a combo that won't happen most of the time and I'd be happy playing that opponent in a tournament and betting on them not getting the combo. I don't know whether PP should be +1 income as well, but I think it's fairly well balanced if a bit strong. Obviously it's a favorite in the market along with preemptive and espionage. I don't play the card (I still need several), it is a card that can really hurt my favorite deck, and I still think it's fine as it is.
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