Borgia tower

[Tuism]

Well, hearing Bronto mention so many times that Borgia's overpowered, I just wanna get some detailed thoughts on it.

Its certainly powerful, but it's support at best, without agents to back it up it's just pretty. It can also be removed in a variety of ways. Certainly I've seen no deck with it that's guaranteed to win - it seems to be most effective is in a noble rush, and well, we've seen jus about all sorts of noble rushes, and they haven't dominated the scene.

Decks that rely on Borgia tower open themselves up to the big pitfall of combo decks - they fail if it gets countered, removed, or simply fail to show up.

It's very close to the likes of doomsday and animus reboot reliant decks. You get it, or you don't. It and some other circumstances.

So... Those are my thoughts, What do ppl (particularly Bronto) think of it?

[Brontobeuf]

It's fine as it is. I just wish more factions had access to strong agent-support cards like it.

[jmeredith06]

I pretty much agree with what Bronto said...it's tough due to it being order and every agent and it's mom has official. I think I should cost at least 4 and/or not give an income boost. But, like Tu said, on the flip side there are multiple ways of getting rid of it, but the cost for those spells are 4+ (I'm sure there are a few others that I can think of right now...it's early a I jus left the gym )

In terms of OP...I personally think Art Gallery is more OP

[Tuism]

Well in terms of agent support...

Order has Borgia Tower and Heiress.
Media has... That guy, Sabbatini? Something. And Caha. And Art Gallery scores like Casanova.
The thieves has Lanz and La Volpe
Faith... Doesn't really do rushes
Scholar... Ditto.

I'd say 3 out of 5 being strong on agent support is pretty good. Scholar draws like crazy and Faith is for their sites.

Let's see what the next set brings. Who knows, maybe order will get site-support cards and scholar get agent-support stuff

[rha737]

i'd just like to see borgia tower with 0 income boost or 0 influence. or, keep it the way it is but with a 4 cost. that gives the opponent a chance to equally challenge it with venezia or mob justice.

i'd like to add though that it's very difficult for a site to be OP, as sites are stuck to one region. simply by their nature they are limited in usage, and 1 alone cannot win a game directly. plus, even for borgia tower, if you lane clog the 2 agent positions before an opponent places his agents, they don't receive the stat boost (unless they wait for your agents to finish campaigning). i always enjoy placing a dama rossa to campaign the exact same as the opponent's creature, so he wastes a day.

[gamemaestro]

I like the card and play an agent rush deck that uses it, but I wouldn't call it overpowered. There are simply too many ways to stop it and it's slow.

[pryingtuna85649]

I wouldn't call it overpowered either. Order rush decks can be a bitch when playing a different strategy (I learned this the hard way when playing my discard deck I was pretty confident about against it...and have had to face countless number of these since, lol). But they can be countered...like others have said with clogging up both agent spots or Venezia (which I know costs more, but I think it's right). And to me, Art Gallery sucks more, lol. Especially if/when I see courtesans coming out. All I have running through my mind when I see that is Femme, which I despise. That does give me an idea for a deck that could trick people though, lol.

[ABXantos]

I play an Order/Media Control Lock that secondaries as a rush deck. I used to use Borgia Towers while starting out (and while I'm at it, Templar Sanctuary would fall in the same Category) but I just find it a hassle with using Sites to buff my agents.

In my opinion Tower is too slow and using it in a rush deck defeats the purpose of... you know... Rushing. It takes time and resources to set up, and if I see a Tower going up on a region, I usually move to other regions while my opponent is tunnel visioning that region which leads to them making mistakes. Not only that, if I can quickly lock down the region, I can even make the tower useless.

If I can place a Vieri lock (have two Vieri De' Pazzi) on the region where a Borgia Tower has been placed, the Region can't be attacked and the site is rendered useless.

I've also gone traditional routes of killing decks like those. Untimely, Court Order, Marco, you name it.

Borgia Tower is ok if you are starting out, but its not THAT great.

EDIT: Oh look, I just played a guy who tried to do a Media Militant Tower Rush on me and after successfully locking the Borgia Tower Region I took out another Region and captured both.

[coolkendude]

Another way of neutralizing this is by using Roma, Vaticano District - and it's not that expensive in the marketplace.