[Order/Media] Over-rush

[Blind_Angel_(Juelette)]

But i'm interested in it. The concept brontobeuf sad, was to rush against control oriented meta.

I don't understand how Man of the people can help in that case? SE and you lose. or not ?
I really want to understand rush principle in all decks, and find the best tips. All over decks, such as nicodeck, site rush, romulus rush, what else ? All don't satisfy me.

My deck and concept for official rush, may be the best way. Or not?
Or without ELO we can't seriosly talk about competetive decks?

[thest4lker]

The best way to check how competitive your deck is right now is to get on the chat channel and organize some games. You can play against some of the best players, and you can request they play certain style of decks to test your deck against. Right now I think media/order rush is probably the fastest, although I am tweaking a media/crime that is coming pretty close, my main objection to it is if you loose one or two la volpe it can slow down big time.

I avoided man of the people in my deck because of the SE issue, but I've put some in now, and I'm seeing how it goes...

[gamemaestro]

I think St4lker built his rush deck after playing against mine a few times Mine is a little different as I have a few counters to give a little more of a chance mid game and I don't have as many PP (I don't own them). I also play art gallery as it's a vet strong card in that type of deck and also allows mid game victories. I only play one man of the people as I find it situational and I was typically unhappy having it in my starting hand. I know I detailed my rush deck in chat last week, I don't think I've changed it.

[Brontobeuf]

Trolls...
...
...

So two questions in all the answers to my post:
- Who's the daddy of this deck?
- Why theses cards?

I never faced this deck. Variations always play Art Gallery, some random nobles boosts, court order etc. In mine, it's "suicide". I try to go for the throat as fast as I can and if I fail, I lose. I can't spend days and days building a noble swarm with heiress, Charles etc. It's just too slow. Like hell slow. PP is for the Borgia tower, not for an heiress in this deck. You don't play the same deck if you only share 95% of the list with 5% being a key-card like ManOTP.

I chose ManOTP because I can launch it so early in the game (and it's most of the time unexpected) that I'm not scared by 4-cost cards. Untimely end can slow me a lot, but SE won't. If you prefer Art Gallery, go for it. The deck is now not the same, you can publish it in your thread and say you are the awesome daddy of this baby.

Each time I post a deck list, it's mine or I say who inspired me. Look at my previous threads for evidences. I publish lists to create debates and to receive constructive feedbacks. "This deck is mine since 2 weeks" is not something I'm looking for, I'm sure you understand this. Also, "mine is better with 20% same cards" (@angel) is not something usefull either. Asking me why I like ManOTP is the kind of thing I want. That's good.

Hope you won't take me for too rude. I love you all.

[gamemaestro]

You're too rude.

In all seriousness, I get what you're saying. I think most people have chosen to go for a little better chance mid game as compared to the full out suicide early rush. If I had more PP I'd give yours a shot. As it is, I don't, and they're key to the speed you need.

I think that art gallery is nice because you'll get the points when you start campaigning, meaning a quick 4 points potentially. That matters when you need speed. I think that MoTP can be a little slow. That's why it's your deck and not mine

Btw, my first sentence was in jest (if it wasn't obvious).

[rha737]

wow this is a great build bronto; can't think of anything to add or edit to it. ManOP is by far the best candidate for influence boosting in a swarm deck like this. reminds me of the good old zerg rush days of starcraft.

very smart build, though; i like your decision to play tactical upheaval over other options such as By Order

[Brontobeuf]

gamemaestro: a few months ago, I was playing a Noble deck with Borgia Tower AND Art Gallery. It was nice and good, but I got starting hands with 2 or 3 sites and this is not something I want with this deck.
Also, a ManOTP with 4 agents is 12 influence with Fierce coming to your regions. With one or two Magnetic, Dante and of course a Borgia Tower, it's usually a win before the end of day 2 (most of the time, my opp has 5/6/7 ressources so I just wait for him to play something to launch ManOTP so it won't be countered).

@rha: thanks. I think more of green decks with overrun in Magic on my side. ^^
TacticalU is a very fast way to boost your agents when they are on a tower. Dante turns into a 3/1, you get +1 and a new card. It's also a very strong combat surprise that can give you free kills. That's fast so I like it. Order of the King is just too slow. Takes half a day, you have to search in a buguy caroussel and doesn't kill Fiora or Amerigo. It's a no brainer for this deck. :]


Don't be fooled by my assurance. This deck can have bad hands, no Borgia is bad, or no 0 cost cards, no agents etc. But it's quite rare.

[gamemaestro]

If you're getting it off on day 2 that makes sense to include. For that to happen you probably need to get to 9+ income on day 1 (assuming you cast nothing else on day 2) and that's tough in decks I've played. I understand you may save a PP for MoTP but that is a PP you don't use to get your Borgia out (or you need a lucky stating hand with Borgia, a couple dama, couple PP and MoTP).

[Brontobeuf]

Playing everything in your hand on the board before the first draw is quite common. And this gives you a good amount of ressource boost of course. Now that your hand is empty (or you still have ManOTP and/or the card you draw, a TacticalU) you can wait for your ressources to reach what you need... you have nothing else to do with them. ^^

[Ringel]

Apr 27, 2012 9:10:35 GMT -5 Brontobeuf said:

Each time I post a deck list, it's mine or I say who inspired me. Look at my previous threads for evidences. I publish lists to create debates and to receive constructive feedbacks. "This deck is mine since 2 weeks" is not something I'm looking for, I'm sure you understand this. Also, "mine is better with 20% same cards" (@angel) is not something usefull either. Asking me why I like ManOTP is the kind of thing I want. That's good.

Hope you won't take me for too rude. I love you all.

Did I mention I won vs Stalker, super Rossa and all (gogo thief rush!) I though that meant I won a Bronto deck.

Darn it!

[thest4lker]

Bronto, I'm not disputing this is your deck, I only meant I had arrived at a similar (not identical) concept, and I was hoping to get a discussion going over the differences (hence my question why you preferred man of the people, to art gallery). Mine was inspired by a move i saw game meastro pull, but its quite a diffferent deck. I was also trying to pay you a compliment, I was excited mine was a similar concept to a player I think builds very good decks.

[Tuism]

Playtested this deck a bunch, and I do like it I had doubts about the role of MOTP at first, preferring a Lucretia or Cesare (who only costs 1 more) to seal the deal, but I see that MOTP is great as long as you remember to keep your agents off campaigning before you launch it

However it's really a dead game without a decent hand, and I've found that I get those dead hands around 20 to 30 percent of the time. I've had 5 days without an agent, or times when I had to burn 3 tactical upheavals on an opponent agent just to get something to support my 2 Borgia towers. But hey any deck can have shit hands

Love the concept, great for a speedy grind, and I would - if you would permit me - argue that this is as much a combo deck as that other c-c-combo deck but to refute and refer to myself, definitions of decks really don't mean anything to me

[Blind_Angel_(Juelette)]

For present I don't undestand anything. It seems like people suggests the first day doomsday saying its very fast, but if you can't you lose. What deck is competitive, and the main question how offen it competetitive? I'll wait for ELO.

[Tuism]

Blind angel, are you asking because you wanna know how some decks are in the competitive sub board and some are in budget and some in fun? That is purely up to the poster. If I make a deck around Dante and just wanna make everything safe for fun and know the deck loses a lot but is an interesting idea I'll put it in themed/fun. If I used Dante and a bunch of cards and it wins a fair bit I'll put it in competitive.

But at the end of the day its all up to the creator really. There's really no empirical measure to "competitiveness" except if we can see that a deck is 134 cards and composed of really seemingly random 6 cost stuff. Even then we will try and give the guy some guidance and steer him towards something competitive.

To be competitive: to be able to compete.

[gamemaestro]

And I think what makes a deck able to compete is a combination of a theme and careful inclusion of cards which fit that theme (or strategy). Competitive decks normally don't carry much fluff. Almost any deck can win (play enough games and you'll lose to a bad deck/opponent) due to luck being a significant factor. Competitive decks reduce that luck factor through consistency and well executed game plans.