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Post by dabooo on May 3, 2012 5:07:47 GMT -5
 Income5 Plentiful Crop 5 Merchant Ship Sites5 Quiet Chapel 5 Scholar's Den Agent Control4 Tactical Upheaval 4 Amerigo Vespucci 4 Sudden Exhaustion Draw / Tutors4 Quick Study 2 In-depth Analysis Winning Combo2 Judgment Day 5 Pontifical High Mass 5 Borgia Cardinal Playbook :- Build 2 sites, each with 2I, - Let them score, to get 2 points in 2 regions, - Pull out the combo Pontifical High Mass / Borgia Cardinal, - Enjoy : 2 points + 4 (2I site + PHM) + 4 (Cardinal) = Win. Pro's- Quite Fast (can win in 2.5 days) - Can win by influence only - Draws and tutors to get your combo cards - Good agents control, you can earn time to get your winning conditions. Amerigo Vespucci's a great wall vs rush. - Cheap... or at least no assassin's rares  Con's- Vulnerable to big sites decks (Judgment Day is your friend) - Small sites spam can be an issue (emptying your hand without gaining those 4I needed) - If the combo fails, your hand at this moment will probably be empty, so you rely on drawing luck or existing influence. I'm still tuning this deck (and i still have some Borgia Mines instead of Quiet Chapel), but i've pretty good win ratio with it. I think there's room to improve it. I putted some Judgment Day to get influence i need vs sites decks. Tutor it if needed, same for In-depth Analysis if your hand gets empty, or if you already have your combo in hand. Hope you'll like it !  |
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Post by Brontobeuf on May 3, 2012 5:12:22 GMT -5
Interesting. Maybe you can work a little on your Agent Control part and find some rooms for more Judgement Days. I don't know.
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Post by Tuism on May 3, 2012 5:27:43 GMT -5
Whenever I do the maths with these combos (also pietro Rossi) I always think: is it worth more influence than another big 5 influence site? For me the honest answer after much testing and frustration is almost always no. Between lair of Romulus, forli, San gimignano, all the 5 sites in all the colors, I find them to be more as a collective than a combo. And half of them are not expensive either (animus credit wise) The speed is undeniable though |
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Post by dabooo on May 3, 2012 5:32:50 GMT -5
Didn't have lotsa issues vs agents decks (except Borgia tower rushes if combo is broken by a counter). You can also wait some more days if threat is low, to get more PHM/Borgia Cardinal and avoid counters. Lost once vs order when opp has 4x Untimely End in hand... and sometimes with an especially bad draw (but most combo decks die this way).
One more Judgment Days maybe, or a few Venezia's... will test.
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Post by UnCL0NED on May 3, 2012 5:46:30 GMT -5
I like the fact you play Borgia Cardinal with small sites. It has a lot of potential.
Shouldn't you replace all your agent control cards with just 5x Lassitude giving you room to add other stuff, like Scientific Espionage and Anti-site cards to protect your little setup. It is very vulnerable to other site-decks indeed in this current state.
Also wouldn't you rather play Field Study over In-depth Analysis in this deck and then also replace Plentiful Crop with Basilica di San Pietro, building up your income for Judgment Day and gives you a broader base for PHM?
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Post by dabooo on May 3, 2012 5:47:37 GMT -5
Whenever I do the maths with these combos (also pietro Rossi) I always think: is it worth more influence than another big 5 influence site? [...] The speed is undeniable though Speed is the main quality of this deck. I usually win in 3/4 days. 2W sites will likely not be countered/removed early, and Merchant Ship's can benefy of PHM. Timing is also very good, since you need 10W to win, and you'll likely have 10 income before 1.5 day. If you have some time to test it... tell me ! |
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Post by dabooo on May 3, 2012 5:57:27 GMT -5
Shouldn't you replace all your agent control cards with just 5x Lassitude giving you room to add other stuff, like Scientific Espionage and Anti-site cards to protect your little setup. It is very vulnerable to other site-decks indeed in this current state. Also wouldn't you rather play Field Study over In-depth Analysis in this deck and then also replace Plentiful Crop with Basilica di San Pietro, building up your income for Judgment Day and gives you a broader base for PHM? Very interesting ;D Don't have any Lassitude atm, but it seems a good idea. Same for Basilica di San Pietro and Field Study... slowing the deck can be an issue but it should work... will test, thanks ! |
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Post by Tuism on May 3, 2012 6:35:20 GMT -5
Thing is with PP + Colloseo + San Gimignano + Lair + Innocenti site I have won MANY games on day 3/4 I guess those are every bit as combo-y as this  |
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Post by UnCL0NED on May 3, 2012 7:08:01 GMT -5
.. I was thinking, also you could try Wrath of the Righteous instead of Lassitude if you don't have any yet.
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Post by dabooo on May 3, 2012 7:36:14 GMT -5
Thing is with PP + Colloseo + San Gimignano + Lair + Innocenti site I have won MANY games on day 3/4 I guess those are every bit as combo-y as this I never could tried this kind of deck, due to a lack of cards, but i guess you're probably right ! With Cardinal Points, i was just trying to optimize my little collection  |
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Post by Brontobeuf on May 3, 2012 9:51:46 GMT -5
With a limited pool of cards, it's a good deck as it is now.
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Post by Tuism on May 3, 2012 10:56:50 GMT -5
Agreed! Definitely a good solution without a complete card pool, sorry I didn't see it in that context!
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Post by coolkendude on May 3, 2012 13:32:47 GMT -5
Try switching Scholar's Den for Coastal Watchtower... you won't get the draw but it's one gold less and it gives +1 income - might help with the speed.
Glad to see someone else using Borgia Cardinal - I have a variation that uses the combo with Master Architect.
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Post by rasmas on May 4, 2012 4:46:12 GMT -5
I tested it with Prestigious College insted of Scholar's Den ... I think it's a key step play a 2 power site on second turn always... But however this deck suffers a lot other site deck. Just the opponent plays a site that low you 2 power site and the game is over ... because you have to manage again to set the combo. Too slow.
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Post by dabooo on May 4, 2012 5:08:32 GMT -5
Game is not over vs sites decks. It just slows you, but threat is low too ! Key card in this case is Judgment Day, and you can tutor it. You can also use a PHM to regain 2I advantage, you'll have 4 more in your deck.
But i've done a bit of tweaking it to handle site (and borgia's tower) decks, with 2 Venezias. And i replaced Plentiful Crop by Basilica di San Pietro and In-depth Analysis by Field Study. Draw power is really important, that's why Scholar's Den's good.
After more games playing it, it's not really as fast as i thought initially (if you don't draw the comba fastly), but you can have really good success mid/late game, and against top decks also. 4 Borgia Cardinal is maybe enough, and i removed Tactical Upheaval atm.
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