Competitive decks need piri and/or counters?

[rl]

Is this true in the current meta? I feel like every deck I face is either loaded with counters and/or piri's. It's really annoying, piri especially. I can power through counters but piri just throws off your entire game, leaving cards like magnetic personality open to be countered, making PP Useless.

1. With the insane amount of variety in counters I think every deck needs to now pack minimum 5 if not more

2. How do you feel about this meta?

[Brontobeuf]

There are different layers of metagame. Sadly, without a true competitive environement, we can't really define correctly a "meta" even basic.

Anyway, it's not that hard to see that Agents-based decks are just absent (too much strong solutions against them... Suleiman, Assassin Stronghold, Abbazia/Maria, etc, etc) while everybody is winning with sites protected by counters. So, we can in fact talk about a meta.

Of course, this will force Piri and Sofia Sartor to emerge as strong anti-winner decks. I think Silvio Barbarigo is a strong one too (even if we're still unsure if he's is working as intended) and the Gardener maybe as well in a near future (without his pack of current bugs of course). Whatever, Piri and Sofia are great meta-cards right now.

Still, they can be countered/erased/neutralised and so they won't define the meta like sites and counters do in absence of a solution to sites in surprise.

I like the meta as it is now, but I would much more like it if a good site-hatred solution in surprise existed (Role Reversal does nothing on a Borgia Tower or an Abbazia...). Something like Mob Justice for 6 cost and a surprise as a bonus.

(And, I'd love it if someone would come with a revolutionnary deck to ruin everything I just said. :] )

[rl]

I suppose that's my first problem, I've made almost only agent based decks since the expansion

[The Rancord]

Well i see quit alot of agents decks, and my agent decks work as well.

Aldo id rate counters higher than piri. That your enemy can play killercards like carneval or millitary brutatlly, with no chance for u stopping it is just the reason u allmost allways want to pack in counters or a super explosive deck.

[Diomedia]

I still face mainly agent decks too, I rarely play forum members though, never seem to matchup . Because of this I haven't found it necessary to make my decks very Anti-Site YET

My solution to the many counters now is to make your agents/sites uncounterable. I made a deck that's in the deck section that deals easily with Piri Reis and Sueliman etc.


I'm sure when the majority of people get most of the new cards then quick matches will mostly be as Bronto describes so enjoy it while it lasts ( I prefer agent/agent games)

[Tuism]

The majority of remaining agent decks are the impossibly fast militant variants, but even then they will beat my stronghold decks by the skin of their teeth if I fail to get my income up or draw a stronghold fast enough.

Piri is no problem if you manage to Suleiman him, Sofia I've lost to many times (insta concede).

But an abbazia takes care of them all.

Even the speed nobles are suffering a bit, even with Borgia tower they're not as effective.

I'm still figuring the meta out, but it's looking quite bland, to be honest. Piri, strongholds and other 10 cost sites, militants, and one abbazia to nearly rule them all.

[The Rancord]

There are red/blue all counter decks, but also decks with only surprise who would own that.

[lurifaxb]

Jul 5, 2012 9:08:25 GMT -5 Brontobeuf said:

There are different layers of metagame. Sadly, without a true competitive environement, we can't really define correctly a "meta" even basic.

Anyway, it's not that hard to see that Agents-based decks are just absent (too much strong solutions against them... Suleiman, Assassin Stronghold, Abbazia/Maria, etc, etc) while everybody is winning with sites protected by counters. So, we can in fact talk about a meta.

Of course, this will force Piri and Sofia Sartor to emerge as strong anti-winner decks. I think Silvio Barbarigo is a strong one too (even if we're still unsure if he's is working as intended) and the Gardener maybe as well in a near future (without his pack of current bugs of course). Whatever, Piri and Sofia are great meta-cards right now.

Still, they can be countered/erased/neutralised and so they won't define the meta like sites and counters do in absence of a solution to sites in surprise.

I like the meta as it is now, but I would much more like it if a good site-hatred solution in surprise existed (Role Reversal does nothing on a Borgia Tower or an Abbazia...). Something like Mob Justice for 6 cost and a surprise as a bonus.

(And, I'd love it if someone would come with a revolutionnary deck to ruin everything I just said. :] )

I agree with this. I made several attempts on piri anti decks. But I managed to create a very competitive one. One that gets piri down really fast and Sofia sator later to demolish site based decks. These two cards shut down 80% of the current meta (Maria Thorpe as an exception). I've used it against forum members I suspected to play suleiman and/or site counters. So far it ruins their game completely. This deck is not good against an agent rush deck, however, but they are far in between among high ranks.

So the meta makes my piri and my anti deck very very powerful.

Honestly I love Piri as I really dislike heavy counter decks. This one card makes sure you get your cards deployed.

[Ringel]

My counter deck vs. another counter deck (sites or not) is a race to get the first Piri down.

(edit: If no Piri makes it down fast, then it becomes a very strange standoff, instead.)

However it is pretty easy to pack in some answers to Piri if my opponent isn't playing a counter deck.

[Brontobeuf]

Facing a lot Agents decks is not the same thing than having a meta that can easily get rid of Agents decks. :]

Of course there are a lot of Agents decks, it's fun, it's cheap most of the time and it's easier to build. But right now, just pack 5 Assassin Stronghold in your decks and tell me how you feel about facing an Agents-based deck. They just don't stand a chance if they don't have a perfect openning hand with 1 or 2 PP etc.

Sites. (Yerebatan, Abbazia, Assassin Stronghold, Monteriggioni, etc)
Counters. (Suleiman, Preemptive Strike, Scientific Espionnage, etc)
Meta-sites. (Secret Catacombs, Sofia Sartor, Role Reversal, etc)
Surprises. (... etc)
Meta-counters. (Piri Reis, Pick Your Poison, discard effects, etc)

That's the meta.

Your deck needs to pack those in mass if you want it to be competitive. However, it's not a necessity to be competitive: I'm having a lot of fun with my Ezio Zombie deck and I'm getting crushed by Piri, Counters and their dogs.

[graspbr]

i use a midia/cholar rush deck that crushes thieves and nobles, while still keeping a great game against the abazia combo.

The deck i really struggle is the order/faith site counter. But against them i just need to draw pp, nico and odai on the starting hand and like 2 altairs after that...

[jeremyat]

I don't know. My favorite current deck is a militant-rush deck that uses Masyaf to draw oodles of cards (since everyone's running site-based stuff). It works extremely well against counters because you can drop your militants and Masyaf before they get the income up to counter them. I do run three Sofias in the deck as well to counter the site-based decks.

Maybe it's the luck of the draw, but I rarely see any decks packing Assassin Stronghold and I've yet to run up against an Abbazia deck. I usually face counter- and site-heavy decks.

[Brontobeuf]

I don't know why but I don't face that much AS either. It's price is not high... I don't get it.

[jeremyat]

I think it's probably due to the fact that no one's playing agent-heavy decks. I also don't think crime decks are all that prevalent in this meta because of the lack of speed for the agent-based thief decks and the cost of running a Stronghold/Thorpe/Mentor-based (or some combination thereof) deck.

[Tuism]

I think it's just cos the general player population doesn't see the power of it yet - instead of anti agent and surprise site power, they see it as anti agent.