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Post by ironcladtrash on Jul 26, 2012 21:21:42 GMT -5
If Constantinople, Galata District is on the board and you play Scientific Espionage against an action it doesn't neutralize the action but creates a copy of the card in your hand. Since Scientific Espionage states "Neutralize target launching Action. Put it in your Hand." I don't think it should do anything since it doesn't state put a copy of the action in your hand.
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Post by Brontobeuf on Jul 26, 2012 21:32:14 GMT -5
Nothing seems to bind the two effects in the card text. Scientific Espionnage is not neutralised either so its effect should resolve regardless of the fact that its target is protected or not.
It's WAI imo.
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Post by ironcladtrash on Jul 26, 2012 22:02:37 GMT -5
I disagree only because of the wording. There are distinct cards that copy. Scientific Espionage doesn't state that it does. I don't think there should be two copies of one card unless SE specifically stated it. The latest example I had was someone played SE on my Funeral Pyre when Constantinople was in play. Mine resolved and then they played Funeral Pyre too. They weren't paying red so couldn't have had it in there deck and didn't steal another copy from my deck with PYP or copy it with purple.
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Post by coolkendude on Jul 26, 2012 22:08:17 GMT -5
Thanks for posting this. I actually avoided using Sci Esp when Galata is on board because I thought like you did - the action wouldn't be neutralized and you won't get the card in your hand. I agree with you that because of the wording, this looks like it's a bug.
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Post by Brontobeuf on Jul 27, 2012 4:57:13 GMT -5
The target card is protected but, it doesn't mean the Sci Esp is cancelled/countered. It has no reason not to resolve normally.
It's like countering something protected with Suleiman, you will have him on the board.
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Post by Ringel on Jul 27, 2012 12:20:04 GMT -5
I agree with Bronto on this. I don't think it is a bug.
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Post by Tuism on Jul 27, 2012 13:28:23 GMT -5
The issue though - is that Scientific Espionage's second part is this: "Put it into your hand"... That doesn't imply "put a copy into your hand"... Which means that even if it didn't get neutralised, you should take it into your hand. So the scenario where there's a copy shouldn't ever be. Therefore - the action should either be not neutralised and you don't get the card, or it's NOT neutralised, but you get the card. The net effect is that Sci Esp should counter the launching memory, taking it into your hand, without neutralising it. Hmmmmm...  |
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Post by Ringel on Jul 27, 2012 13:40:43 GMT -5
Hmm... Does the card it copies normally go into the archive?
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Post by ironcladtrash on Jul 27, 2012 15:06:16 GMT -5
Hmm... Does the card it copies normally go into the archive? When this happens yes the card it copies goes to the archive normally after it resolves. Whoever played SE ends up with an exact duplicate. |
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Post by Tuism on Jul 27, 2012 15:08:23 GMT -5
OK Then either the text needs to change to reflect that it's a copy, or the mechanic should be changed to reflect the text  Call me rulebook Nazi  |
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Post by ironcladtrash on Jul 27, 2012 15:13:09 GMT -5
OK Then either the text needs to change to reflect that it's a copy, or the mechanic should be changed to reflect the text Call me rulebook Nazi The problem is without Constantinople on the board SE doesn't create a copy of the card you just steal it. |
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Post by coolkendude on Jul 27, 2012 15:30:25 GMT -5
Here's my 2 cents on this...
If you really think about what "Espionage" means in this case, the closest you can get is really stealing it. You're not copying it, you're not neutralizing it - you're stealing it. And this is how Scientific Espionage works normally because as ironclad just mentioned, without Galata on the board, Sci Esp doesn't create a copy of the card.
So I think the best resolution to this is to change the wording on Scientific Espionage to "Steal the Action and put it in your Hand" or something similar - in short, remove the text that says it Neutralizes the card because really, it doesn't neutralize the Action in a normal setting. And then, when Galata is on the board, what would now happen is Scientific Espionage resolving normally. Galata prevents neutralization - fine, Sci Esp should still work because it doesn't neutralize the Action, it steals. In this case, everything works as intended IMO.
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Post by ironcladtrash on Jul 28, 2012 22:04:16 GMT -5
OK Then either the text needs to change to reflect that it's a copy, or the mechanic should be changed to reflect the text Call me rulebook Nazi The problem is without Constantinople on the board SE doesn't create a copy of the card you just steal it. I have to correct myself. I double checked and tested again. Even under normal circumstances Scientific Espionage copies the card. I don't think it ever did that before. If that is now the intent then the text of the card should be updated otherwise SciEsp is more bugged then I thought, albeit a minor bug. |
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