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Post by Tuism on Jan 2, 2012 17:06:39 GMT -5
[edit - this was before 14 Feb 2012's balancing patch] Looking at the current metagame, which successful deck is blue not part of? Royal Intervention is the winning condition of just about any deck that has one too many income boosters. How do you stop RI? With blue counters. Green has a counter too, but blue alone has Court Order, Preemptive Strike, and that old man that sacrifices. 15 counters, if maxxed out. Count Radical Demotion and you have 20. Agents? Blue nobles are among the most successful. It's like cheap fliers/shadow of Magic days. Yes black thieves are strong but blue weenies are very strong too. Templar Sanctum? Borgia Tower? Big agents? How about Cesare? You'll need a counter against opponents with removal. Income? Forced Inheritance. Hell even Faux Pas is useful  Blue... It's like Magic's blue man, so versatile. |
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Post by Brontobeuf on Jan 2, 2012 20:41:55 GMT -5
Counters are a key card to the current metagame which is based on combos, and (but less) on sites. That makes Order cards strong. But RI is expensive, and you can see it coming. It's not perfect at all. Very strong, but not OP. And Cesare Borgia is just as good as the other boss (Ezio, Leonardo, etc). I feel Scholar is stronger in fact. Drawing power is too much of a card advantage in this game.  |
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Post by Raphael Majere on Jan 2, 2012 22:25:44 GMT -5
I would say Blue is strong, not OP though.
Green is also good but has much less winning cons.
Blue can win via Pan/RI or Cesare or noble/official rush/Borgia
Green can win through? Erm, Leo. Leo's workshop... Erm, not that great.
But of course, Green is the perfect partner to most other colors. The card draw options provided by green is wicked.
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Post by Pete on Jan 3, 2012 0:58:17 GMT -5
Yes i agree, most deck combos include green.
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Post by Tuism on Jan 3, 2012 2:11:33 GMT -5
Agreed. I don't think it's OP but certainly almost essential to have. Green's drawing power is very strong, but that's where it ends - Green can't stand on its own, while blue can.
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Post by The Rancord on Jan 3, 2012 3:54:25 GMT -5
Red is very good at stopping blue/green. I dont have 5 Divine interventions unfortunatly. Since blue uses many cards to boost themself but do nothing else, divine Intervention is very potent.
The Silvio deck a bit mroe polished and with a 2nd win condition (otherwise u fall to sudden exhaust), will win you probably pretty oftena gaisnt the usual blue decks.
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Post by Raphael Majere on Jan 3, 2012 13:07:14 GMT -5
DI is the best low cost Red card out there. It destroy combo decks early, removing cards like Cesare, Carnivale, Reset and other 10 cc agents. I have 4, wish I have 5.
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Post by The Rancord on Jan 3, 2012 13:42:38 GMT -5
I have 3, with 4-5 Id play my planned red decks.
The thing with black/red/purple is that their key cards are rare assassin cards.
Political Patronage/Divine Intervention/Forced Charity *or Lanz/Volpe*
While blue can get away with 2-3 Royal intervention. the other rare assassin cards. Pantheon/Preemptive strike, are good but not needed and also not in a full playset. This makes blue very easy train to jump on. Once auction house is here, im pretty sure red will come much stronger than it is now. Same for black.
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Post by crazygambit on Jan 3, 2012 18:36:36 GMT -5
I have 3, with 4-5 Id play my planned red decks. The thing with black/red/purple is that their key cards are rare assassin cards. Political Patronage/Divine Intervention/Forced Charity *or Lanz/Volpe* While blue can get away with 2-3 Royal intervention. the other rare assassin cards. Pantheon/Preemptive strike, are good but not needed and also not in a full playset. This makes blue very easy train to jump on. Once auction house is here, im pretty sure red will come much stronger than it is now. Same for black. Maybe, but the Auction House isn't gonna be some magical place where we all can get all the cards we want for cheap. If it's to trade cards, you have to realize not many people have more than 5 of any assassin rare, much less the really good ones. I expect they'll still be pretty hard to get. |
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Post by Brontobeuf on Jan 3, 2012 19:37:53 GMT -5
Yep. I have a lot of good rares in more than 5. I'm not alone in that case. And we can also expect "poor" players to sell good cards at a high price to fund a deck. I'm quite sure it will be interesting to complete my collection with the AH. All colors are balanced imo. I still think green is a bit above,but not by that much. |
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Post by crazygambit on Jan 5, 2012 13:54:48 GMT -5
Yep. I have a lot of good rares in more than 5. I'm not alone in that case. And we can also expect "poor" players to sell good cards at a high price to fund a deck. I'm quite sure it will be interesting to complete my collection with the AH. All colors are balanced imo. I still think green is a bit above,but not by that much. Don't forget that we're probably in the 1% that has spent the most money on the game. I wouldn't expect that many people to be in your situation. Everyone on this forum is an outlier, most players won't have that many cards for an Auction House. |
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rav950
Junior Member
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Post by rav950 on Jan 24, 2012 16:41:54 GMT -5
I'll often drop a decoy card against blue, something to draw a counter, before playing something I care about.
Sites and discard are very effective against blue. Sites can't be neutralized by untimely end and require a full counter. Discard will often enough tag a counter before it can be cast.
Lots of small targets and surprises are also a problem for blue, since it doesn't want to waste counters on cards that don't seem threatening. When the little horde IS the threat, that's when blue breaks a sweat.
Once a blue player makes it to 10 income, if you don't have some good threats on the board you're in trouble. At 9 income, they can spend it all in a shot and still charge up fast enough to have a court order ready for whatever you cast while they were at 0. Before that point, bid your time and wait for them to make big plays... use that opening to get your cards in, before they get enough gold to counter again
Having all your stuff successively countered is obnoxious.... but its not unbeatable. Its the player that holds their single counter back and saves it for your finishing play.... that's scary.
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Post by Ringel on Jan 24, 2012 18:08:20 GMT -5
I don't think this is still true. Green--Red--Black--Purple are all scary enough in their own way. Blue is just readily available to more players.
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Post by Tuism on Jan 25, 2012 0:22:14 GMT -5
Yes, I agree there, and it's quite simple, cos:
1. It's your starter colour
2. It's the colour of Templar - hence easier to get hold of (order's opposition is crime which is the assassin colour)
3. It's easier to assemble blue power as its basically court orders and weenies. Ok preemptive strike is great but not necessary.
4. It's easy to understand counters - as opposed to media copying, or faith discard, or the subtlety of green draw.
So yeah blue's not really overpowered anymore. It's just a perception.
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Post by The Rancord on Jan 25, 2012 2:16:45 GMT -5
I'll often drop a decoy card against blue, something to draw a counter, before playing something I care about. Sites and discard are very effective against blue. Sites can't be neutralized by untimely end and require a full counter. Discard will often enough tag a counter before it can be cast. Lots of small targets and surprises are also a problem for blue, since it doesn't want to waste counters on cards that don't seem threatening. When the little horde IS the threat, that's when blue breaks a sweat. Once a blue player makes it to 10 income, if you don't have some good threats on the board you're in trouble. At 9 income, they can spend it all in a shot and still charge up fast enough to have a court order ready for whatever you cast while they were at 0. Before that point, bid your time and wait for them to make big plays... use that opening to get your cards in, before they get enough gold to counter again Having all your stuff successively countered is obnoxious.... but its not unbeatable. Its the player that holds their single counter back and saves it for your finishing play.... that's scary. And why should I counter your decoy? If its a card I have to counter anyway it doesnt really matter. Discards are ok. They are effective against decks without a card draw, when they appear at the right time. A discard will allways reduce his hand by 1, so its not that wrong to counter it, if the card you would loose is more important than a counter. Blue has Royal Decree, so I dont see why they are more effective against blue than against other colours. *If enemy packs 5 Untimly End, you could argure that Cesare is imba against other blue decks* What small cards are you talking about? Do you have enough hand card to risk putting out "small cards" This isnt true, it depends on his hand size, if he has 10 income but only 1 card in hand im far away from trouble. A blue play can play counter everything if he resolves some card draw, and has the winning option on the hand. The best against blue is to play a deck, that has allmost only surprise cards. It depends alot on the build the blue player is using. 5 Faux-pax are very scary when u play with 10 0/1 cost cards. But when you don't they are complete garbage. Here its important to know what you are facing. Key to building a good control deck is to pack the right amount of answers. |
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