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Post by Pete on Mar 27, 2012 12:10:24 GMT -5
Alright, here's the deal. I built a Highlander deck and tested a couple of things. First, I tested whether or not you can draw a card from your initial hand after you mulligan. Yes, I know Ringel already did this, but I figured a test to corroborate his results wouldn't hurt. I mulliganned my opening hand 17 times. Not once did I draw a card I had mulliganned away. I fully expected these results as they fall in line with Ringel's. I also found out why you can't immediately draw a card you mulligan away. As I hypothesized earlier in this thread, your original starting hand goes to the bottom of your deck after you mulligan, and those six cards are arranged in a specific manner. After you draw your initial six cards, the game rearranges them on the screen from left to right by how much gold they cost to play. That is the order they will be on the bottom of your deck. The card on the far right will be on the very bottom, the card second from the right will be second from the bottom, and so on with the card on the far right being sixth from the bottom of the deck. I played a game in story mode where I didn't try to win. I only tried to work completely through my deck without tutoring. I did it twice and got the same results each time. Obviously, if you or your opponent ever search your deck, it will then be randomized. This can be useful if you use Benevolent Midwife or Sacred Vision. You already know what cards are on the bottom of your deck if you mulliganned so you know whether or not you want to move them to the top of your deck. this information just wins post of the month. Advanced tactics 101, now make a deck that takes advantage of that and tour opponent won't even understand why he lost. |
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Post by thest4lker on Mar 27, 2012 12:25:19 GMT -5
Totally agree, I have already avoided a mulligan where I would previously have done it because I didn't want a card at the bottom of the pack.
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Post by madstryfe on Mar 27, 2012 13:29:54 GMT -5
Alright, here's the deal. I built a Highlander deck and tested a couple of things. First, I tested whether or not you can draw a card from your initial hand after you mulligan. Yes, I know Ringel already did this, but I figured a test to corroborate his results wouldn't hurt. I mulliganned my opening hand 17 times. Not once did I draw a card I had mulliganned away. I fully expected these results as they fall in line with Ringel's. I also found out why you can't immediately draw a card you mulligan away. As I hypothesized earlier in this thread, your original starting hand goes to the bottom of your deck after you mulligan, and those six cards are arranged in a specific manner. After you draw your initial six cards, the game rearranges them on the screen from left to right by how much gold they cost to play. That is the order they will be on the bottom of your deck. The card on the far right will be on the very bottom, the card second from the right will be second from the bottom, and so on with the card on the far right being sixth from the bottom of the deck. I played a game in story mode where I didn't try to win. I only tried to work completely through my deck without tutoring. I did it twice and got the same results each time. Obviously, if you or your opponent ever search your deck, it will then be randomized. This can be useful if you use Benevolent Midwife or Sacred Vision. You already know what cards are on the bottom of your deck if you mulliganned so you know whether or not you want to move them to the top of your deck. this information just wins post of the month. Advanced tactics 101, now make a deck that takes advantage of that and tour opponent won't even understand why he lost. I wanted to add in Scientific Method as well for bottom of sequence browsing so officially if what we're learning about mulligans is true then you have 3 cards that can help you draw from the bottom: Benevolent Midwife (Faith) -Look at last 3, Put 2 on top in any order, last one to archive. Sacred Vision (Faith) - Look at last 5, put 4 on top in any order, last one to archive. Scientific Method (Scholar) - Look at last 4, Pick 1, Randomize Are there any others we've missed? |
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Post by Ringel on Mar 27, 2012 13:53:34 GMT -5
Oh, wait. Last four means the bottom 4, not top 4! Now I get it. Forget what I said.
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Post by thedude808 on Mar 27, 2012 13:55:27 GMT -5
No, I think those are the only three.
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Post by Hurdler on Mar 27, 2012 18:22:47 GMT -5
Looks like we are going to change that in the coming update. When you'll redraw, it will be a new random on all the memories, including the one you've got in the first hand.
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Post by thedude808 on Mar 27, 2012 19:12:51 GMT -5
Was the original intention of the dev team for the redraw to be randomized from the entire sequence? Was it just overlooked in development? Have there been complaints? Just curious.
This is interesting because in standard TCGs, this decision is a practical one. If you want to redraw your opening hand, who wants to take time to shuffle again especially in a tournament setting. The easy option is to just put them on the bottom of the deck and draw new cards from the top. In ACR, this practical factor doesn't exist because of the digital nature of the game. The "computer" just shuffles for you instantaneously.
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Post by Tuism on Mar 27, 2012 23:57:31 GMT -5
Looks like we are going to change that in the coming update. When you'll redraw, it will be a new random on all the memories, including the one you've got in the first hand. Ok good to know  and it's much more practical like that instead of remembering what's at the bottom of the deck |
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Post by Pete on Mar 28, 2012 2:05:37 GMT -5
Looks like we are going to change that in the coming update. When you'll redraw, it will be a new random on all the memories, including the one you've got in the first hand. I kind of prefer how it is right now. Much deeper strategy can evolve. |
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eev
New Member
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Post by eev on Mar 28, 2012 2:49:43 GMT -5
This is interesting because in standard TCGs, this decision is a practical one. If you want to redraw your opening hand, who wants to take time to shuffle again especially in a tournament setting. actually this is how it works in mtg, shuffling of all cards. and it makes more sense too. |
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Post by thedude808 on Mar 28, 2012 6:27:54 GMT -5
I haven't played MTG since the mid 90s so I'm a little out of practice on my Magic rules. As for what makes sense, I don't think it makes sense to slow the game down for an additional shuffle. Maybe it's just me. That's cool if it is. As for ACR in this situation, I'm up for however the devs want to do it. I don't mind either way.
Edit- Come to think of it, I haven't played any TCG (other than ACR) in five years or more. Maybe I'm just remembering the mulligan rules incorrectly for all of them. That's also possible. My memory isn't what it used to be.
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Post by Hurdler on Mar 28, 2012 7:28:50 GMT -5
Was the original intention of the dev team for the redraw to be randomized from the entire sequence? Was it just overlooked in development? Have there been complaints? Just curious. This is interesting because in standard TCGs, this decision is a practical one. If you want to redraw your opening hand, who wants to take time to shuffle again especially in a tournament setting. The easy option is to just put them on the bottom of the deck and draw new cards from the top. In ACR, this practical factor doesn't exist because of the digital nature of the game. The "computer" just shuffles for you instantaneously. We prototyped the game like that one year ago and never changed that part of the code since then. But after reading this thread, I asked the design team if that's what they still really wanted and the anwser was no. I haven't seen any complaint for now. |
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Post by Tuism on Mar 28, 2012 7:31:37 GMT -5
All good, shuffle the whole thing |
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Post by Hurdler on Mar 28, 2012 7:34:40 GMT -5
Looks like we are going to change that in the coming update. When you'll redraw, it will be a new random on all the memories, including the one you've got in the first hand. I kind of prefer how it is right now. Much deeper strategy can evolve. I would say I agree with you  I'm not sure it has such a big impact, but at least if you are unlucky with the first draw, you really have a strategic advantage by redrawing, and less chance to have a bad hand. People could also redraw automatically just for the strategic advantage (and build deck that take advantage of it). I think that last statement is what the design team is a bit worried about as it could unbalance the game. |
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Post by thedude808 on Mar 28, 2012 7:59:42 GMT -5
We prototyped the game like that one year ago and never changed that part of the code since then. But after reading this thread, I asked the design team if that's what they still really wanted and the anwser was no. I haven't seen any complaint for now. That's cool. I don't think it's that big a deal either way. I was just curious. |
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I'm not sure it has such a big impact, but at least if you are unlucky with the first draw, you really have a strategic advantage by redrawing, and less chance to have a bad hand. People could also redraw automatically just for the strategic advantage (and build deck that take advantage of it). I think that last statement is what the design team is a bit worried about as it could unbalance the game.