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Post by Tuism on Mar 21, 2012 2:10:39 GMT -5
Jeff you have great points there, just have one thing to add - have you gone through the articles in the academy board? It's got a lot of articles that expand greatly on what you've learned there, so I think it will help you a lot if you haven't yet
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Post by jefmajor on Mar 21, 2012 2:23:59 GMT -5
Yeah I should have mentioned that as well. Lots of thoughtful and helpful resources about understanding not just individual cards but whole concepts. Very cool stuff.
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Post by pryingtuna85649 on Mar 25, 2012 0:23:22 GMT -5
Yeah, I've read through a lot of the posts on the Academy board. It's honestly not really helping. I've changed up my deck numerous times based on the different things I've read there. Doesn't help. I've tried the tips in this post...has helped a little, but I'm still sinking. It still seems like the computer is programmed to make the player lose. Today, I was in the lead and only 2 points away on one site and 1 point away on another site (with agents in each slot) when the computer pulled out a card I have NEVER seen before and destroyed all of my cards. And shortly after, I ended up losing, because the only cards I drew out of my deck were surprises or something I didn't need. Even though I followed the advice about putting 15 1-2 point cards in the deck and hadn't drawn them all.
I really have no idea where I'm going wrong at this point. I'm thinking about what cards I put in the deck and why, trying to play them at the right times, and paying attention to the computer. But I'm still running into what honestly just seems like BS moments where the computer randomly pulls an over-powered card out of its ass. I get the concepts. Nothing is coming together, though.
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Post by thest4lker on Mar 25, 2012 0:56:28 GMT -5
Are you still playing that deck you listed on page one, or have you tuned it now? If you are still playing something similar to that you need to update it based in Tuism's deck building posts on the academy board. Let us know, as it will make a big difference to more advice once we know your deck
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Post by Tuism on Mar 25, 2012 1:52:33 GMT -5
And I'm pretty certain the ai isn't doing anything devious... In fact if you look out for it you will see that the ai is pretty stupid at times - playing a royal intervention... To score 1, or a man of the people... When he has 0 or 1 agents. The ai is pretty much there to practice against, so just take it easy and don't get intimidated by them, they really are pretty easy to beat.
Then it's the "challenge" of each challenge, some of them demands pretty specialized deck building to beat, especially RC9 which makes your site and agents zero powered, There is another thread that deals with that challenge specifically.
Not everyone's starter deck can beat all the challenges... It will take some extra cards, but only extra Templar packs that you can get for free with your challenge earnings or daily winnings if you're playing multiplayer.
Have you tried multiplayer yet? playing against humans really help, and even right now there are a lot of people who just started, just like you, online and playing basic decks.
My last bits of practical advice:
1) stick to 50 cards. Trim out the excess. It's been covered numerous times so I won't elaborate on why anymore.
2) stick to a focus - depending on the cards you own, find the strongest "set" and synergy and implement it. In the beginner's case it's often order unblockable officials. Other possible synergies could be site based decks, or getting lots of income to play something massive, or concentrate on card advantage by using mass removal (wanted posters or Fabio orsini or wrath of the righteous or whatever). And find strategies that compliment each other. For example if you use a lot of sites, you can spam wanted posters all day long cos you have no agents to kill. Or order agent rush without sites and you can use royal decree to prevent a site heavy deck from winning.
3) resource boosters and income curve - that's often a big blunder - bronto's mistakes. Out resource boosters is VERY important to read and once you apply it right you will find it change your game significantly, usually from having no cards to play to having options all the time. Play your deck and feel if it's too expensive for its income or if you run out of cards while you have tons of income. Adjust.
Good luck man, it's a learning curve we've all went through, don't worry about it, as long as you enjoy it!
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Post by pryingtuna85649 on Mar 25, 2012 12:26:14 GMT -5
I'm not still playing that deck. I changed up my deck several different times based on what I read here. Especially based on Tuism's deck building posts. I actually just deleted all of the decks I built to start from scratch and not think about other things I've tried. Maybe it's just not clicking, I dunno. I'm on the challenges now, but it seems like the only reason I ever win one is just dumb luck every x number of times I've played a certain challenge. I wish the game had some way to view the number of games won versus lost in the story mode. This isn't really significant, but I'm level 11 and the leaderboards shows me in the top 5%...so the top 5% of players must not be that advanced. But I've tried sticking to 50 cards, more duplicates of a certain card in that I want to see more often/increase the chance of having it on my first draw, focusing on a certain card strategy, thinking about the timing when playing certain cards, thinking about a set that can counter/defeat another set in a certain challenge, etc etc. I still seem to be having massive amounts of problems. I've gone up to R9, but haven't beaten every challenge 5 times (and I think 3 of them I've only been able to beat once). I've tried R9 2-3 times with different decks but haven't won yet. And R9 isn't really what I'm frustrated about...I'm less worried about that because I know that one is just a harder challenge. It's the challenges leading up to it, where I think I shouldn't be having too much difficulty, that I feel like I've won maybe 1% of the time. I have gotten tons of extra Templar packs from the store. And 1 Assassin pack, though after looking around on the forum, I think I should have waited on that (I saved up my free credits to get it). But oh well. I've also tried the MP a few times, but I've only won one match. And with the resource boosters thread, I've read it a few times but don't really understand it. Some of those cards are at zero cost, so other than the time in which it's drawn, I don't see a disadvantage. But I'm also thinking about the challenge where the opponent starts off with more income. And the thread sounds like some cards (like agents or sites) with extra income aren't really as useful as players think. Again, I haven't really understood the thread very well and I'm honestly kinda flustered at this point, because I've read a lot but can't say I've likewise improved. I do enjoy the game and want to learn this type of card game. I think it's a good mental exercise that I need. It's also a bit of a competitive thing, because my brother has always been good at this kind of game whereas I've always had a hard time understanding it. We're adults now, he's in computer programming, and it's fascinating talking with him about logic and strategy. He's able to grasp it in a manner I've never been able to, and I think his natural gravity toward games like this and chess is part of it (both his natural interest/ability and that he's played games like this a lot, so he's had practice in this kind of thinking). So I'm kinda fascinated with that line of thinking and progression of thinking and want to learn it myself. It will never be as natural (if at all natural) as it is for him, but understanding it and/in order to be able to operate under it can greatly benefit me (in my opinion). It's just so hard for me, though. *crosses eyes* I really want it to click and to see lightbulbs going off, but that hasn't happened yet.
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Post by Tuism on Mar 25, 2012 12:52:39 GMT -5
I think you're trying too hard and being too hard on yourself its taken any of us at least *that* long and *that* much experience - not just in recollection but many other similar natured games, like you've said yourself of your brother, to get to grips with this kinda thinking. Take it easy and enjoy the game! It will come to you naturally. specifically, with the whole disadvantages of income boosters - this is how you think about it - a zero cost (say Plentiful crop) pure income booster in your opening hand will give you more income to play bigger cards sooner. The same Income booster drawn when you already have 15 income rolling and no cards in hand means not nearly as much as, say, any agent that you can play to score, or a card to remove an opponent's threat, be it agent, site, actions, whatever. A large part of this game is balancing this ratio between building income and playing threats. Then the next important concept is to find cards that work with each other to maximize each other's advantage. Why don't you have a chat with your brother and show him the game and see what he thinks about it? It's much easier to hear it than to read a bunch of forum posts learning together is a great, possibly the best, way to learn! I hate chess btw never been any good at it. And Starcraft. And Warcraft. And especially homeworld oooooh that game pissed me off so much. So everyone has what they like, what they naturally fit into cos it works like the way they think Again, best of luck!
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mana
Full Member
Posts: 367
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Post by mana on Mar 25, 2012 13:21:44 GMT -5
okay about the income boosters: the thing with income boosters is that there are basically diffrent types of income boosters.
lets look at them:
1) pure boosters: those are income boosting cards which dont give ANYTHING else than income. (forced inheritance, plentiful crop, etc...)
2) agents and sites which give some income ( theodor viscardi, dama rossa,merchant ship, etc...)
3) actions with income ( knowledge is power, divine intervention, etc...)
your goal is to play more/stronger cards than your opponent as fast as poosible.
look at group 1. these cards give huge income boosts most of the time. but you dont get any other advantage (called card advantage more or less). that means after you played that card its gone for the rest of the game and you only got income.
now look at group 2. after you played them you got gold AND you STILL got the card! it is not in your hand but on the field now and can do sth in the next rounds (block,attack,score....). you havent lost a card even though you got income! that means you havent given your opponent any card advantage.
( to clearify cardadvantage: basically you just have to count all your cards in your hand and on the field. after that you do the same with the opponents cards and compare the numbers... if you have less you lost cardadvantage to him.
example: enemy got: -3 cards on the field -4 cards in his hand in total: 7 cards
you got: -2 cards in your hand -4 cards on the field in total 6 cards
that means: your enemy has the card advantage. leading with 1 card )
now look at group 3. they have effects and give income. so if the effect is worth ONE card then you dont give your opponent card advantage. easiest example: knowledge is power: you drop a card and get 1 income and a card. that means you got 1 income for completely free!
another example is divine intervention: you drop divine intervention and get one income AND the enemy has to discard 1 card too! so you also dont lose any card advantage but get a free +1
so now when you build a deck you have to make the decision whether you can give your opponent card advantage or not.
lets say you have a deck with really strong big agents. then you might want to include income boosters like forced charity (group 1) to be able to play them earlier. okay then you give up card advantage but in order to win you should try to gain it back... therefore you have the big agents... everytime they destroy one of the enemys agents you get back "+1 card advantage".
now lets say you play a control deck. this decktype focuses on gaining a huuuuuge cardadvantage to be able to have an answer to any card the opponent draws/plays. so you already dont want to give away the cardadvantage early on. that means you play things like knowledge is power. you get income slower this way but you achieve a card advantage.
one more example: rush decks: rush decks want to spam out agents/sites before the enemy has enough income to stop them. so they want to get alot of income but dont care about cardadvantage at all. they want to win with their first 10 cards they draw anyway. so there is no use for them to achieve cardadvantage.
okay long post and i dont know if you will understand it. but i tried ^^
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Post by Ringel on Mar 25, 2012 13:23:20 GMT -5
Wait, ... are you on RC, or R?
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Post by Tuism on Mar 25, 2012 13:31:49 GMT -5
Wait, ... are you on RC, or R? I think RC (the 9 new challenges), cos he (she? I can't really tell, sorry, damn Internet) mentioned RC9 challenge. And to add to what mana was saying, those "free" income cards aren't really free - they cost you one gold and half a turn. Time and gold are very precious at the beginning of the game. I dunno why patronage decks aren't as popular anymore (guessing untimely end and sudden exhaustion's popularity) but those can kill in a matter of a couple of turns while you're "getting income for free" Balancing income, gold spend, card advantage, time, as resources and maximizing them - that's the art of this game!
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mana
Full Member
Posts: 367
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Post by mana on Mar 25, 2012 13:34:55 GMT -5
thx for adding this ^^ if i had to explain it i would need that whole page
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Post by pryingtuna85649 on Mar 25, 2012 16:33:23 GMT -5
jefmajor, I forgot to say thanks for your post, because it did give me more understanding! Tuism, thanks for the encouragement! And your post really helps! The balancing thing really makes sense now that you've broken it down a bit more. I'm going to rebuild my deck with that in mind. And advanced chess concepts are a mystery to me. Well, I say advanced...what I'm thinking of may actually just be barely beyond the basic rules. I've been reading Through the Looking Glass (woohoo Definitive edition of the Annotated Alice) and realized how little I actually know and understand of the game. I also know there are specific moves and techniques that are famous, but I don't know what they are and wouldn't be able to understand them based in what I know now if they were explained to me. I've never gotten into the Warcraft thing, lol, and haven't even heard of Homeworld! I downloaded this because I loved the AC series and it was free. It is a bit bittersweet, though, because I'm not happy with the state of AC multiplayer and Ubisoft's response to reported issues. I won't be purchasing the next one brand new (if at all) unless Ubisoft can respond with some form of reassurance to the video I sent then of ACR glitches. I put over 200 hours into ACB and have had ACR from day one, so telling me it was user error threw me a bit over the edge. But anyway, sob story over a stupid little game, I know. mana, your post is AWESOME! Broke it down great for me. Could you do the same with control and rush decks? I'm still shakey on those concepts...I saw those on the academy board also, but flew over my head. Ringel, RC9. The challenge with no influence/power to your cards. Sorry, still getting used to the terminology! Thanks everyone for all the info. It really helps and is greatly appreciated! Oh, and Tuism, she. Time to develop a profile, lol.
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Post by Tuism on Mar 25, 2012 17:36:33 GMT -5
I totally loved Beotherhood, I even finished multiplayer (reached level 50) even before finishing the story. It was rock solid awesome for me Gonna have to get Revelations finished before AC3 with tomahawk hits Keep at it Ps I *thought* only a girl would use "flustered" on themselves
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Post by Ringel on Mar 25, 2012 17:42:57 GMT -5
First off, if you made it to RC9 without investing a dime into cards, don't feel bad about your abilities. All the RC challenges are fairly tough, even for experienced players. I never felt bad about playing strong decks in the RC challenges.
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Post by pryingtuna85649 on Mar 25, 2012 19:00:59 GMT -5
Tuism, ACB was great until the pre-DLC3.0 update. It gave me and a lot of my friends problems. I was among the top 100 for ACB MP for Templar Score, as were several of my friends. And as soon as ACR was announced, Ubisoft ignored ACB MP and the glitches/lag went rampant. The same is happening with ACR. The idea of the game is great...I absolutely love it. I just wish I could have one match without so many glaring issues. I really didn't want to, but I'm probably gonna reopen ports tonight. The first time I did it, it didn't really seem to help and I started having issues with people teleporting in other games, which had never happened before. I closed them after that. We recently increased our internet speed (drastically) and there's been no change. So I'm gonna try again, but I'm expecting no change. And that's funny about the flustered comment. Ringel, thanks for the encouragement. I'm having a hard time with all of the challenges, but RC3 has been the hardest for me by far. I've tried many different decks but nothing works. Today, my deck worked on another challenge that stumped me every time, but when I wewnt to RC3, the computer managed to pull out a neutralize opponent card on every one of my cards but one. That's why I keep thinking the computer is programmed to defeat you. It also seems like the only deck I've been able to get past consistently in the challenge mode is the computer's site only deck. Any general tips on RC3?
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