Post by Brontobeuf on Mar 30, 2012 16:45:00 GMT -5
Funny thing the last deck I built before taking a break few months ago was a Follower/Tower deck. I was much more heavy on the discard side and played 5 AD. The concept is storng, and i will test it more. Nice one!
actually i had this stranger/follower idea right at the beginning but i hadnt got the cards to make it work... so i forgot about it^^ this deck evolved out of a stranger/tower concept and followers are just a perfect suit to thin out the deck alot (together with TU and Order of king) and thus making it very likely to draw exactly the cards i need.
Post by Brontobeuf on Mar 30, 2012 17:21:58 GMT -5
More on this deck... I remember I stopped playing it because Cesare Borgia and Tactical U were too present in the meta. Now, it should be a little stronger.
By order of the King shouldn't be removed, it thins the deck and it's important if you want to draw your counters. I think Forced Inheritance is the card to remove here. I'd play 5 DI, one more AD and some Papal Influence instead.
i dont see the point in adding papals since my grimaldis get 5/7 every game atleast... they are a reuseable papals.
yes you could get out the 5 forced inheritance and add 2 DI and 3 AD. you sacrifice tons speed but overall you should do better in midgame/lategame. sadly i dont have to cards to try it out. yet i am always very happy to see a FI in my starting hand and im afraid that rushes might cause me far more troubles when i dont have them because i dont get fast enough on the goldlevel to counter critical cards.
but in order to make it really competitive we all know it should be very strong against itself and then 5 DI and 5 AD fit better.
some other point: while playing more with that deck i encountered some troubles when playing against siterushes which focus on rather small early played sites combined with papal influences. i always managed to win but it was VERY close all the time. so id say yet it is its biggest weakness right after a 1.Day PP-Doomsday
So I've been playing this deck the last 2 days, and have lost exactly 1 game! And I had a very bad starting hand, then... I removed Papal Influence again, since I felt it didn't really fit the deck... I think your original concept is perfect. I do however play with 5 DI's and 3AR's. I wouldn't worry too much about sites... Most of the time you can easily outrun them. Haven't played a mirrormatch yet. Should be interesting!
Post by gamemaestro on Apr 1, 2012 12:55:06 GMT -5
I made a variant of this deck and it ran well against mediocre decks and lost one very close game to a mill deck (someone packing lots of agent control and buried catacombs and mob justice and counters like the one that stops Assassin memories). He pulled a mob justice on the day I would have hit 10 on my second region and I was milled down so lost with 10 and 9. The games I won werent really close but probably didn't create the sense of frustration my counter/discard deck does. Fun deck, effective, probably doesn't discourage others. I'll keep playing it.
Post by gamemaestro on Apr 1, 2012 21:06:08 GMT -5
I've now played this a few more times and it's fun because the games tend to be close. I did lose one to a site rush that also had Grimaldi, but otherwise it does well against the run of the mill players and is pretty fun to play.
once grimaldi & Borgia Tower are on the field its pretty evil. Im not rly a fan of the heathen folower, I played him with borgia some time ago and its way to slow for my taste. Also its kinda annoying if you draw more than one.
the 0/X agents with borgia it takes soooooo long till they are a threat. Grimaldi and Misterious are different there. They are evil themself and then start to get rly big real fast.
True about the speed. I think you just need to view the followers as deck thinners and income generators with anything else being gravy. Their lack of speed is a large part of why I find games close and entertaining against run if the mill decks.
i am still tweaking the deck and atm i only got 4 followers in there. simple reason: assume you always activate the ability of follower as soon as it is ready and always instantly play out the next follower then at one point you will have 2 followers where you can activate the ability. that means after the next complete day you get your 4 followers rdy to attack. now i dont want to hold back a attack another day for just the 1 follower missing.as it doesnt matter anyway since 1 borgia tower can only supply 4 agents at the same time. bit more speed for less deckthinning... ill see whether it works out. i replaced that follower with another ancestral discovery (boosterluck ftw)
I've been playing this deck for a couple of days now. Let me preface this by saying that I'm new to decks with a lot of discard and, timing being key, I don't always do the right thing in moments where there is a lot going on and I sometimes miss dumping my opponents' most dangerous cards.
With that said....
It's a really fun deck but you have to pay attention and know what time of day it is. Just dropping one card after the other doesn't work very well.
I have a few differences (for example, I only have one DI and only 4 Grimaldis which caused me to get rid of an Order Of The King since, why have 5 Orders when you only have 4 Grimaldis to call up).
This deck has a couple of bad things that can happen to it. I have had the snot beaten out of me by fast, site heavy decks if my discards don't come out toward the beginning of the game. If you get a starting hand full of Sudden Exhaustion and Untimely End, you're pretty much done if they draw decent sites. Even if you get a few Heathens, by the time you get them all out of your sequence, your opponent may very well be putting Seeking Sanctuary in all 3 regions and you're staring at being able to exhaust 3 agents he doesn't even have. Plus, once they have a couple of sites on the board, some of the most dangerous cards like Seeking Sanctuary or Judgement Day don't usually get discarded because they cost so little, but you have no way of countering them.
I played three irritatingly long and uneventful games agains JefMajer's discard deck which features literally 2 cards that can score by themselves and he had exhausted nearly every single card in his deck and all of mine on the way to beating me. Those games took probably 15 minutes each. To lose.
After that, I ended up dropping 2 Venizias into the deck to counter and I'm tempted to put in Family Heirloom to help me get at them when I need them. Good site or site/discard decks give me hell when playing this deck. I've also been beaten twice by Femme Fatale which never happened with my Noble Rush deck I usually play. I'm doing okay but nowhere near 39 and 1.
But the non-site losses may have just been anomalies that I don't have the experience yet to counter. I just think that fast, quality site decks might be a little too prevalent in the meta right now for this deck to be dominant absent better than average draws and perfect execution.
well the problem is we really play 2 diffrent decks here ^^ there are only very few adjustments the deck can withstad without loosing its whole idea. it is a rather expensive deck and thus i didnt post it in the limited deck building section. it is not only the combo of follower and borgia tower this deck is relying on. so when you had to adjust that deck it is clear that it wont jield the same results at all.