The biggest problem that no one is talking about

[lefthighkick]

Ask yourself:

What would the meta look like if the minimum card requirement for a sequence was 60, and the maximum # of duplicates of a single card was four instead of five.

The 50/5 setup makes decks too consistent, gameplay too predictable, and deck design too constricted due to mandatory staples.

Discuss!

[The Rancord]

So you are complaining ure decks are to consistent?

[lefthighkick]

Jul 17, 2012 14:59:57 GMT -5 The Rancord said:

So you are complaining ure decks are to consistent?

Try reading my post again instead of taking one piece of it out of context.

[Pete]

Not enough draw cards for some colors to increase deck size. Reducing copies to 4 might work.

[Tuism]

Hmmmmm I don't mind the consistency if general card to card balance was better. I still spend many games not seeing any of the cards I have 5 of.

[Brontobeuf]

This format favors deck builders, I like it.

BTW, Try to play Elementsthegame.com, you can play 30 cards max and get 6 copies of your cards. That's what I call too much. ^^

[Pete]

No draw cards in that game which is why.

Disclaimer: I think there is one actually.

[graspbr]

cannot agree more lefthighkick !!!

I was (and still am) expecting the devs to increase the minimum to 60 after (some) expansions.

When a deck can play 5 suleiman, 5 suleiman tutors, 5 cistern and 5 cistern tutors... well, it gets much more than consistent.. it gets boring.

60/4 it would be really better...

[IchiRomero]

I think that 60/4 vs 50/5 is not the biggest problem
The problem is not how many memories people can have, the problem is the quality of the 75% of the memories.
We play with the same, all with this 25%. Its better to update some old memories to put them in the same level as the revelations.
... Cause the price of packs is the same...

[graspbr]

Jul 18, 2012 8:48:00 GMT -5 IchiRomero said:

I think that 60/4 vs 50/5 is not the biggest problem
The problem is not how many memories people can have, the problem is the quality of the 75% of the memories.
We play with the same, all with this 25%. Its better to update some old memories to put them in the same level as the revelations.
... Cause the price of packs is the same...

thats really not the problem... u CANT make all the cards the same power level. Its not worth even trying (it killed all the fun in Shadow Era for me). In every card game, some cards will be great, some will be good, some will be good in very specific decks and some will be unplayable... thats not the problem, and magic the gathering is an obvious case.

The problem is that with 50/5 and great card draw/tutors we can make decks so consistent that they are borderline boring...

Again, the UR deck plays the same game every game, cause they play 5 suleiman, 5 cisterns, 5 of the other site that counters and 10 tutors... waaaaaaaaaaaaaaayyyy too much.

[Altaem]

What's wrong with deck consistency? If certain cards bore you, just leave them out of your decks.

I like to grab a card at random and then design a deck around that. What the game really needs for variety is a better way to manage 20+ decks.

[Tuism]

I don't understand how one could say having more even distribution of power in cards sucks and rattle off a list of consistently played,auto-include cards due to their power, and saying that sucks

[graspbr]

deck consistency is good... up to a point. Think of the extreme. Lets say u could play 15 cards, up to 5 of a single one. How would u like to play against a deck wtih 5 pp, 5 nicos, 5 odai dunqas (or another disgusting sequence). Its obvious that u would quit the game after a few matches. U cant make the game too random but u certainly cannot make it so that every match feels the same.

Regarding the power level, mark rosewater (magic the gathering lead designer) has a great column on magics oficial site. In an old post he explains why u need cards on every power level, ranging from unplayable to borderline broken. He explains that much better than ill ever do but in a nutshell:

1- Bad cards help people learn the game. When u have il carnefice and nico, a novice might want to play with il carnefice. After a few games, he will realize that the gold cost is really important. Some more games and he will realize that nicos drawback is worth due to speed considerations. He will take much more time to figure that if all cards are cost eficient.

2- Ppl like to find good combinations using bad cards. U feel very clever when u discover abbazia + maria for example. If abbazia was a great and played card to begin with, u wouldnot feel that smart. Its just another use to a good card.

3- U need some cards to stand out as cards that can change a match. If all cards are equally good, then all cards can do that. And if all cards can change the outcome of a match, then why does it matter

He has many more reasons and explains it better. Dig his column... its a great read anyway.

[Tuism]

I don't disagree at all, and on that point, ACR has generally done exceptionally well. Different power level doesn't mean blatant retarded outclassing, which ACR has avoided.

For example, savannah lion is 2/1 for one white. and... Whatever is 1/1 vanilla for one white... Is just plain retarded in my mind. There's no draw back to savannah lion except its "rare". Nothing but a money making scheme.

So while ACR has all of the above elements u describe, I'd just like the actual balance to be better between things of comparable level. No savannah lions in ACR, but I feel some are close.

[Joek]

CoughFaithfulMonk/BartolomeoCough