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Post by dannyshan on Apr 25, 2012 13:26:07 GMT -5
I don't understand why people like "forced charity" and "knowledge is power". Both only let you draw 1 card, which means the gain is 0, regardless the income boost. And the card you draw is uncertain. I always try to reduce my deck size close to 50, so that I can get the key cards early in the game. But puting 5 "forced charity" or "knowledge is power" into the deck doesn't increase the chance you get the cards you want. I only use "field study" or "in-depth analysis" to draw cards (1 for 3, the gain is 2, talking about action only, agents are not considered). If you say the income boost by these two cards is important in the early game, I will prefer plentiful crop (0 cost, +2 income), plus it is golden, everyone can use. Look at the price of these two cards, I don't know how to justify it. Maybe it's because one is rare, and the other is uncommon? they thin your deck, and increase your gold. I love cantrips. Adding 4 to a 50 card deck is like running a 46 card deck, so you have made it more consistent. my point is if you add 4 or 5 "forced charity" or "knowledge is power" into a 50 deck (total 54 or 55), and since the gain of these cards is 0, why not just use the oringal 50 deck. And if one concerns about the income boost, plentiful crop is a better choice.
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Post by Pete on Apr 25, 2012 13:50:28 GMT -5
they thin your deck, and increase your gold. I love cantrips. Adding 4 to a 50 card deck is like running a 46 card deck, so you have made it more consistent. my point is if you add 4 or 5 "forced charity" or "knowledge is power" into a 50 deck (total 54 or 55), and since the gain of these cards is 0, why not just use the oringal 50 deck. And if one concerns about the income boost, plentiful crop is a better choice. you would not do this, you would take your 50 cards, remove 4-5 and then add 4-5 cantrips.
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Post by dannyshan on Apr 25, 2012 14:07:28 GMT -5
my point is if you add 4 or 5 "forced charity" or "knowledge is power" into a 50 deck (total 54 or 55), and since the gain of these cards is 0, why not just use the oringal 50 deck. And if one concerns about the income boost, plentiful crop is a better choice. you would not do this, you would take your 50 cards, remove 4-5 and then add 4-5 cantrips. there are many more useful cards than these 1 draw cards. a 50 deck in fact does not contain many different cards, if you have 5 copies of each card... for me, I absolutely won't add 5 copies of a 0 gain card into my deck. But different players have different selections.
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Post by Pete on Apr 25, 2012 14:19:19 GMT -5
you would not do this, you would take your 50 cards, remove 4-5 and then add 4-5 cantrips. there are many more useful cards than these 1 draw cards. a 50 deck in fact does not contain many different cards, if you have 5 copies of each card... for me, I absolutely won't add 5 copies of a 0 gain card into my deck. But different players have different selections. It is helpful, since you can play a card, gain income, and not lose tempo. Your solution would mean you might have times when you cannot play anything and your just waiting for income. This is a disaster vs certain decks like discard.
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Post by jmeredith06 on Apr 25, 2012 14:55:01 GMT -5
Those cards are insanely good...as it was said...the point is to play the card which gives you another card and 1 or 2 income WHILE thinning out your deck which leads to greater chances of getting your kill cards or answers to problems. I'd that doesn't make sense to you I don't know what will
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Post by dannyshan on Apr 25, 2012 15:09:46 GMT -5
there are many more useful cards than these 1 draw cards. a 50 deck in fact does not contain many different cards, if you have 5 copies of each card... for me, I absolutely won't add 5 copies of a 0 gain card into my deck. But different players have different selections. It is helpful, since you can play a card, gain income, and not lose tempo. Your solution would mean you might have times when you cannot play anything and your just waiting for income. This is a disaster vs certain decks like discard. personally I think divine intervention is much better than knowledge is power, same cost and income boost, though you don't draw a card, but your opponent discard a big card, which is usually decisive. That's why I think it justify the price of divine intervention in the market, but not forced charity or knowledge. Since I am also a site player, I don't find it difficult to boost income. Well, I know some deck have few cards to boost income, and it make these two 1 draw cards seem to be essential. But there are many income boost golden cards. Of course there is no loss to put forced charity or knowledge is power into a deck, but due to the price and the rarity of the two cards, I would suggest other cards. In fact, drawing cards is very essential in the game, but there is always ways to get around. That's why without using green cards, red has discard cards, purple has copy cards (to copy those drawing cards or else), blue has conter, black has .... well nothing (to draw cards, this somehow justify the price of forced charity). With green cards, for site players, field research is absolutely a must, sold at 1! In-depth is a bit more expensive. Daring experiment is also a good choice. These 3 cards give you a gain of at least 2. And of course, they attract counter and copy.....
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Post by Ringel on Apr 25, 2012 15:11:04 GMT -5
There are decks where I would rather see faster income boosters right out of the gate, but for long haul decks these are perfect. Plus they are much better than other income boosters late game.
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Post by dannyshan on Apr 25, 2012 15:53:26 GMT -5
Now I understant why people think forced charity and knowledge is power are invaluable.
when people say putting these one of the two cards into their deck, they mean remove 5 copies of another card to make room for it; when i say so, i mean adding 5 copies into the original deck.
for the former one, obviously it thin the deck (45 is invalid, but adding 5 0-gain drawing cards not only make the deck 50 but also can boost income) I always find the cards in my deck are too essential to be removed.
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Post by Ringel on Apr 25, 2012 15:59:01 GMT -5
Well, they fit the "Income Booster" slot in decks that I use them.
Are you playing a rush deck? Tempo, tempo, tempo. Get the most out of your income boosters the fastest. Knowledge and Forced probably aren't your best choice for income boosters.
Are you playing a control deck? Card advantage, card advantage, card advantage. Knowledge and Forced (and Divine) are probably your best choice compared to any other income booster.
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Post by dannyshan on Apr 25, 2012 16:13:01 GMT -5
Well, they fit the "Income Booster" slot in decks that I use them. Are you playing a rush deck? Tempo, tempo, tempo. Get the most out of your income boosters the fastest. Knowledge and Forced probably aren't your best choice for income boosters. Are you playing a control deck? Card advantage, card advantage, card advantage. Knowledge and Forced (and Divine) are probably your best choice compared to any other income booster. I play a mixed style. Sites are the means I score, while control opponent's hand by discarding. As you know, red has a lot income boost sites, and I combine red with green to draw cards and defend
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Post by Tuism on Apr 25, 2012 16:47:07 GMT -5
I think everyone should be familiar with all styles of play - agents, rushes, sites, control, discard, officials, counters, etc. it makes you able to understand what your opponent is doing or wants to do. I play all of them
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Post by Ringel on Apr 25, 2012 17:51:36 GMT -5
I play a mixed style. Sites are the means I score, while control opponent's hand by discarding. As you know, red has a lot income boost sites, and I combine red with green to draw cards and defend Good example! For card advantage, site boosters are a better choice for site decks and discard boosters are a better choice for discard decks. Dante is often a good choice for blue agent decks. I'm sure there are other examples.
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Post by Brontobeuf on Apr 25, 2012 19:12:58 GMT -5
Dannyshan, you know that not everybody is playing Faith or Sites right? There are many different decks, and many different ways to build them. It's really good to have Forced Charity as an income booster in a deck, because it won't cost you a card. It's that simple. Also, mid game, if you draw a Plentiful Crop, you will cry tears of blood while waiting for another day to come, hoping to get a better draw next time. Drawing Forced Charity of Knowledge is Power mid game is not that dramatic. As Ringel said, if you empty your hand with income boosters, a discard deck will just crush you. That's why they are both really strong cards and deserve to be expensive in the market. A comparision between Divine Intervention and Knowledge is Power is a bit pointless. They don't have the same function. And can only be compared because they give +1...
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Post by Pete on Apr 26, 2012 0:14:39 GMT -5
Ringle? What the... I don't even!
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Post by Ringel on Apr 26, 2012 1:10:56 GMT -5
... what?...
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